Marlboro sent me a letter.. You won't believe it

[snusgetter]

American "snus" is all overkill with extreme sweetness and flavor. They don't understand subtlety, and allowing tobacco taste. I think if all the crappy American "snus" was way toned down with it sweetness and "flavor", they might not be too bad.

They seem to think it won't be "good" if it's not extremely sweet, and highly flavored. Yet this is the total opposite of real scandinavian snus.

The problem is that they look at snus as candy:
Something you might want from time-to-time
but not constantly.

How else can they keep people hooked to their
bread & butter: cigarettes!!


Now, what's that latest slogan again...


"enjoys taxicabs, subways and bar-hopping"

Gee, these are all places where smoking is prohibited.
Nothing about using snus to quit smoking!!

Of course Big Tobacco is looking out for us..
That's why they keep the nic hit real low.

[tom502]

You are right. They wanna keep you on the smokes.

[pactactrefugee]

Keeping everyone smoking is the key. They also think that Americans only like overly sweetened tobacco since that is what flavored dis are. The Camel RJR study is a joke with the same questions every month. And if you email that Mikele you never get a response. What kind of a joke is there site? You cannot post anything or interact with anyone else that is participating in the "study". And do they thik if they ask us the same stupid questions every month the answers will change? How the hell am I going to have any different opinion of Camel SNUS when I have not used any since early last year? But hey, the $10 check came the other day also and will pay taxes on future orders

[snusgetter]

Well, I know my smoker friends did not like the Scandinavian snus I offered them, yet I see them occasionally with a Camel or Marlboro snus.

Actually, I think Scandinavian snus may be an aquired taste for one not acclimated to it, and so they "like" the harsh sweet tastes of the US stuff.

I think if they could bridge that gap, with maybe a hybrid snus, it might be better, for all of us.

I'm with you totally on that.

Unfortunately, it seems to be an all-or-nothing directive
from both the Swedish and American sides.

SWEDES: "We've been at this the longest so we know best."
AMERICANS: "We can't leave well-enough alone so we improve."
CONSUMERS: "Just give us a decent selection to choose from."

THE END RESULT: SOS

[tom502]

Actually, while many liked them, and I kinda did, I would say the Triumph Snus was a hybrid of a Sweden/American idea. These cans also did not require refrigeration, and it stayed moist. So, it CAN be done, and it CAN be at local corner gas stations.

[myuserid]

I checked my mail tonight and got a letter from Marlboro stating..

"Give us your two cents and we'll give you 50 bucks. It'll only take an hour of your time. Spots are limited. RSVP now."

It gives a local address and dates, next Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. It's being held locally here in San Antonio. But here's the kicker. I think it's about their "snus". There's a pic of the Marlboro rich. I hope to hell I can get a spot because I'm going to tell them everything wrong with their product. I'm bringing a can of Thunder, General, Goteborgs to show them what real snus is. It isn't about the money (it doest hurt though). I'm going to say what we all have been saying in the threads about their crap. I won't be an ass about it but I will give them some advice. I can only go Sunday do to work but if I get in I promise I'll represent SnusOn!

Cool. Let us know what you find out when you call.

[snusgetter]

Actually, while many liked them, and I kinda did, I would say the Triumph Snus was a hybrid of a Sweden/American idea. These cans also did not require refrigeration, and it stayed moist. So, it CAN be done, and it CAN be at local corner gas stations.

Which brings to mind one of the biggest problems
for any snus: PROPER ADVERTISING!

Restrictions don't allow for any meaningful discourse
of the merits of the product.

It's like introducing a new product that's packaged in
a plain box and all you can advertise is a picture of the
box with no meaningful description.

How many of these mystery items would you buy?




Snus advertising, for the most part, may show the
container along with some portions but that alone
does not supplant the image of a cigarette to the
average smoker. The package may say Marlboro or
Camel or General but what is it for and how do you
actually use it? Most people won't take the time to
Google or do any research at all. This has to do with
satisfying a craving -- spoon-feed them the information
and they might consider it!

[Darwin]

Well at the very least the various already existing mints, wintergreens, and frosted flavors should play well at the gas station/convenience store. However our current situation is an extreme example of the "chicken or egg" syndrome. There likely won't be supply without demand and demand will be lacking until supply is plentiful. RJR has broken through this wall, somewhat, with a heavy advertising and promotional budget along with the obvious advantages of an instantly recognizable brand name, but such as General and V2 have just about zero brand awareness in this country making their attempts at market penetration far harder.

It is difficult to fathom how this Gordian Knot can be cut. Camel helped their effort along with substantial promotional freebies but RJR's pockets are deep enough to allow this whereas I doubt SM or V2 can afford to give away several million bucks worth of product to help prime the demand pump. I'm not even sure that either company really wants a rapid sales expansion in this country. Their production facilities are already quite strained in servicing the recent demand increases and big increases will require substantial new investment. This may happen but it's likely to be in a timeline measured in years rather than months. For us a frustrating gradualism will be the reality for quite a while.

[tom502]

[snusgetter]

Well at the very least the various already existing mints, wintergreens, and frosted flavors should play well at the gas station/convenience store. However our current situation is an extreme example of the "chicken or egg" syndrome. There likely won't be supply without demand and demand will be lacking until supply is plentiful. RJR has broken through this wall, somewhat, with a heavy advertising and promotional budget along with the obvious advantages of an instantly recognizable brand name, but such as General and V2 have just about zero brand awareness in this country making their attempts at market penetration far harder.

It is difficult to fathom how this Gordian Knot can be cut. Camel helped their effort along with substantial promotional freebies but RJR's pockets are deep enough to allow this whereas I doubt SM or V2 can afford to give away several million bucks worth of product to help prime the demand pump. I'm not even sure that either company really wants a rapid sales expansion in this country. Their production facilities are already quite strained in servicing the recent demand increases and big increases will require substantial new investment. This may happen but it's likely to be in a timeline measured in years rather than months. For us a frustrating gradualism will be the reality for quite a while.

I've discussed Swedish snus with a few retailers and the general comment is:
"My contract with Marlboro (or Lorillard) might stop me from carrying any
other brands... I'll have to look into it."

One guy even told me that because of his arrangement with Marlboro he doubted
if he could even carry Camel snus.

Seems to me this is a restraint of trade but since it involves tobacco there is
probably little to no chance that any AG politico will take up this cause.

As I've noted in another post:


Now, if we could only get them addicted to snus!!
(Let's start with our Hypocrite In Chief himself!!)

[snusgetter]

Gotta admit I'm attempting to deduce the message you're trying to convey.

If this has to do with advertising, WE know what it is but it's a sure bet
most smokers -- nay, most people -- would have NO CLUE to what this
really is, let only its actual purpose.

Am I missing something here?

[Langdell]

Their = they're

I swear the iPhone makes me challenged.

When I first got my iPhone, whenever I tried to type "snus" (on a shopping list in Notes) it kept changing it to "anus." I kid you not. So when I got home I realized that, instead of tasty General, I had wound up with Camel Mellow.

[tom502]

I agree about the constraints on advertising, not allowing a product to be known, and what it is, and is for. I was just mainly saying, a "decent" snus that is a mix of Swedish and American ideas, can be made, and available at the local gas stations. How well it will do, well, Triumph didn't do too well, it seems. I don't know. I still think Red Man should do it.

[Langdell]

Actually, I think Scandinavian snus may be an aquired taste for one not acclimated to it, and so they "like" the harsh sweet tastes of the US stuff.

I think if they could bridge that gap, with maybe a hybrid snus, it might be better, for all of us.

I agree that the acquired taste issue is part of the problem. I can see, for example, how if you got average non-snusing Americans in a focus group and gave them a Camel Frost and a General OP most would initially say they prefer the Camel Frost--not as a tobacco flavor but as a familiar sweet, minty flavor. It's like if you were to give a group of people who already know they like chocolate but were unfamiliar with coffee a choice between hot chocolate and black coffee and then, based on the likely results, concluded that there was no future in selling coffee.

I agree that a "hybrid snus" might be the gap filler that makes the difference. Maybe something like Camel Robust will prove to be that transitional snus that helps more Americans move to the straighter tobacco flavors or that those of us who already like the more Swedish flavors will enjoy as an occasional change of pace.

[Darwin]

I still think Red Man should do it.

This path gets my vote. Since Red Man is an arm of SM just take half a dozen existing products, slap Red Man labels on them and bazinga!--guaranteed entry into the vastness of the convenience store market. Seems the best way to take advantage of already well known brand awareness.