Horrible: Full video of the attack on Sweden’s Mohammed cartoonist

[Roo]

I do not like the muslims very much myself

Cool post until you said that. Honestly, I'm not trying to be the typical liberal jumping down your throat, but did you have to say that? Did you have to make Roo come on here and play PC Police? lol. It sounds like you and I BOTH know a lot of Muslims, and this type of shit is uncalled for, and sets the whole thing back a few yards. Take it back you bastard. We must all learn to get along, and not just because it sounds correct, but because we are ALL the direct product of our upbringing. If that makes me a blasphemous heathen, and you a pious catholic, and them a Muslim (ooo, scary!), then so be it. We can all be cool God damn it. No need to single people out based on how and where they were raised. It makes a lot more sense to look past that, but most people don't compute. It's a crying shame.

/Liberal rant over. I just heard 95% of this forum knock on my door. They want blood.

[f. bandersnatch]

^Are they twilight fans or something? I did hear that an army of vampires was coming to Seattle, but I don't think those ridiculous radio ads were referring to you, Roo.

[Roo]

That's Forks, WA. It's such beautiful country out here it's damn near mystical. Just mind the people f***ing animals, hey, it's Washington State and we have rights too. Th
e right to ravage our animals, and charge foreigners a premium to do the same. Nice to see you hand-on-my-snatch, I was worried you disappeared. We need a few smart sons-of-bitches around here to balance me out.

[sgreger1]

Cool post until you said that. Honestly, I'm not trying to be the typical liberal jumping down your throat, but did you have to say that? Did you have to make Roo come on here and play PC Police? lol. It sounds like you and I BOTH know a lot of Muslims, and this type of shit is uncalled for, and sets the whole thing back a few yards. Take it back you bastard. We must all learn to get along, and not just because it sounds correct, but because we are ALL the direct product of our upbringing. If that makes me a blasphemous heathen, and you a pious catholic, and them a Muslim (ooo, scary!), then so be it. We can all be cool God damn it. No need to single people out based on how and where they were raised. It makes a lot more sense to look past that, but most people don't compute. It's a crying shame.

/Liberal rant over. I just heard 95% of this forum knock on my door. They want blood.

I think you misunderstood my comment. I am not a fan of muslims, like I said before, I have voiced a trillion times how I am not a fan of any radical sect of anything. The muslims I have known are similar to the christians I have met, mainly not muslim in anything but name (they drink, party etc). I should rephrase, I don't appreciate radical muslims, in the same way I don't appreciate radical fundies. I just don't like the idea of killing someone for your God. If a God does exist, surely he does not want you to kill his other creations.



The whole point of my post was that we must be respectful. I don't understand muslims, but I am familiar with middle eastern culture, and this video was out of line. I would have assaulted this guy for showing me that. He was trying to incite rage amongst these people.

I just think that in this country we have done something great, we have made it a decent place to live, regardless of religion or race. That being said, I am also a large believer in sovereignty. To each his own, as long as it does not infringe upon me. These muslims were not causing any ruckus until this video was shown, at which point they showed their outrage at it. Muslims come from a very traditional, conservative if you will, background. Therefore pictures of gay Mohammed are obviously going to piss people off. If this is their belief than leave them to it. Why incite rage amongst them? That is just picking on others for being different. I said I don't care much for muslims, but the reason I said it is to show that while one person may not agree with another, we must all be tolerant, otherwise it become chaos and anarchy, which is to no ones benefit.


You are right Roo, we are a product of our upbringing. This is hard for some to understand. I do not fault those in Iraq who believe the way they do, it is not their fault, nor is my opinion any more valid than theirs really. My whole basis is that we must live equally, and only if one infringes upon another should there be objection. In my opinion, this video was blatantly anti-islamic. Again, I don't like islam, but even I know that I have no right to purposely try to instigate them. It is not American and it is not right.

[f. bandersnatch]

I've been to Washington state, and I will be the first to testify that it is crazy, Jurassic park beautiful. No joke, if you were walking through those forests and you bumped into a velociraptor, I think the level of surprise would be significantly reduced from if you ran into the same around the Missouri river. Great country up there.

[Roo]

Muslim does not equal radical anything, that is a primary point of my argument, but as it were, and as it always will be, arguing this point is like screaming at a brick wall. I am going to bed.

I just wrote a religious diatribe then had the good sense to delete it and go to bed. PHEW. Thank the lord, I was looking at getting myself banned, if not severely ostracized. Love you all!

Edit: No I don't. That's the bourbon talking.

[sgreger1]

Muslim does not equal radical anything, that is a primary point of my argument, but as it were, and as it always will be, arguing this point is like screaming at a brick wall. I am going to bed.

I just wrote a religious diatribe then had the good sense to delete it and go to bed. PHEW. Thank the lord, I was looking at getting myself banned, if not severely ostracized. Love you all!

Edit: No I don't. That's the bourbon talking.

You obviously have stopped reading my posts. I didn't say muslim = radical. I said that most muslims I personally have come into contact with (in fact, ALL) are not radical. I said I don't like radical anything, including muslims. I don't know the people in this video, and whether they were just religious or radical. But I said regardless, there is no reason to taunt them for what they believe and try to instigate a problem. <-- what in this statement do you not agree with?

I am saying while I personally don't agree with them, even I can see what their opinions are as valid as mine, and that we shouldn't taunt them to try and start problems, because that leads to chaos.

[Roo]

I said I don't like radical anything, including muslims.

I read your whole post. As long as you are saying things like this, I am making my point. You are equating radicalism with BEING Muslim. If you truly have Muslim friends, then you know this to be far from the case. And if that is true, then you are among the 1% of Americans who even try for one second to understand people of Islamic faith for who they are: people just like you who grew up under what turns out to be a slightly different faith than your own, and the bases for such distinctions are purely geographical, and not at all philosophical. As for "hardline" or "extremist" interpretations of the Quran, that is another matter entirely, and for another thread.

[danielan]

The idea that we would give up our freedom to mollify any specific group is, IMO, ridiculous.

I mean, "Piss Christ" was fine, this dork's bad "art film" is also fine. Even if you don't like it. Maybe especially if you don't like it.

IMO, neither anarchy nor the appeasement of extremists have a place in a modern secular society.

Everyone in the room knew what was going to be shown - this was not a surprise. You do not have a right to not be offended.

People don't need to be singled out based on "how and where they were raised", but they do need singled out based on how they behave.

There is an important line between understanding people might be upset and rationalizing violence in response to people exercising their rights.

It's one thing to protest. It's another to become violent. If you don't carefully preserve that line you end up on a slope that leads to blowing up abortion clinics, the murder of Theo van Gogh, the destruction of the World Trade Center, the Murrah Federal Building bombing, etc.

That this guy was attacked in a university makes this crime all the worse - that the presentation was stopped is unacceptable.

Do you really want it all to come down to who is the best armed?

[sgreger1]

I read your whole post. As long as you are saying things like this, I am making my point. You are equating radicalism with BEING Muslim. If you truly have Muslim friends, then you know this to be far from the case. And if that is true, then you are among the 1% of Americans who even try for one second to understand people of Islamic faith for who they are: people just like you who grew up under what turns out to be a slightly different faith than your own, and the bases for such distinctions are purely geographical, and not at all philosophical. As for "hardline" or "extremist" interpretations of the Quran, that is another matter entirely, and for another thread.

F*ck Roo, i don't know how else to put it. I have been drinking so maybe I wrote something other than what I am thinking, but what you wrote above is exactly what I said, word for word. I said that I, as sgreger1, don't believe in the muslim religion, but I understand the need for tolerance, and that this was unacceptable. I NEVER said that radicalism=muslim. In fact, I said the opposite in stating that of all my many muslim friends, none of them were any different than me, and that I have never met a radical muslim. So not sure what it is your fighting against.

I said that we are all a product of our upbringing, and that a muslims opinion on the world is no less valid than my own. I then went on to say how of ALL my muslim friends, ALL of them were like everyone else, maybe claiming it as their religion but otherwise just growing up in the society around uncontrollable influences like everyone else. If you are born into a mormon camp in Utah, than that's who you are, more power too you, if you are brought up in Iraq, than more power too you. My message was that we are all equal and that it is un-american to try and piss off other people who don't believe the same way you do.



I think we misunderstand each other Roo. Your angle is that you have traveled abroad and are therefore enlightened to how the world really works, and my view is that I have never left the US but have made it a point to interact with every sect of society. Both our opinions point in the same direction: Even if I don't' personally believe in it, let them have their piece and don't **** with with. I see America as a place where many people from different camps can live on the same block, and I suspect you see it this way as well. I don't think all muslims are terrorists, not by a long shot, simply due to the fact that of all my muslim friends I have never witnessed this ever. You keep putting me in the Glenn Beck crowd and it's starting to piss me off. Perhaps I am carrying myself in the wrong fashion and people are misinterpreting me, but I think that all of us are of one tribe, just spread out amongst the world, and that any invisible barriers we create amongst ourselves are transitory and not relevant.



The politics of this don't even matter. Point is, my statement was this: In this video,I see one guy pissing off a bunch of people he knew he would piss off. That pisses me off. If I were middle eastern I would have reacted the same way. If someone from Iraq came here and showed me a video about how much america sucked, I would kick his ass.

[Roo]

I should maybe add the disclaimer now that I didn't watch the video and I do not understand the nature of the original post. As it turns out, that has no bearing on the present debate. Sleep tight sgreger, to be continued you bastard.

Edit: I was kidding, I think you know that by now. Reading your post then going to bed for real. Peace.

Edited twice to make it clear that I'm going to BED, not to "be". And to say sgreger: it's all good man, I know you are a good man, I just disagree with you on a million points, and that's what makes it fun. After all, we could be sleeping right now, but that's boring.

[sgreger1]

I'm hiding in your bushes Roo, no one is safe.

[deebocools]

So, to state my basic position:

Assault based on ideology? NEVER excusable. I don't care how many muslims versus one troll was in the room. He still has every right to do what he did and still have his rights protected.

So the film is extremely offensive to muslims? pornographic? Well being offensive and pornography are not illegal or surpressed either, nor should they be.

I agree the scale of the incident doesn't look too great. But considering that dutch filmmaker was killed, and anyone who simply "insults" islam publicly almost always suffers some type of violence, You have to consider it could have been worse, or will be worse.

No one has protection from being insulted. The muslims in western countries that think they do are misunderstanding what a free society is. There's no freedom with force-fields

. There is no other religious group in modern times that does as much bitching and moaning, eggs on as many conflicts and actually has procedures for using violence in it's original holy text. People like this are dangerous. But all you can do is lock him up for assault, as it should be.

[deebocools]

and to re-iterate, in regards to all this "He was trying to start shit" commentary, who cares? He's free to do that as well. What did he expect the insulted to do? Well, I'd expect them to DECIDE NOT TO WATCH. freedom of choice. There is not freedom to attack.

[tom502]

I don't know any Muslims on a personal level, but I did study Islam a bit in my spiritual quest, and even visited a Mosque, read a bit, and well.... but I ended up having a non favorable view on Islam as a "religion".