Terrorists plots?

[jtwh20]

I voted OTHER:

We need to close every military base overseas - Germany, Korea, Middle East etc, bring all the troops home.

We need to stop propping up so called governments, and let their own civil wars play out without outside intervention.

We also need to stop sending billions of dollars to our so called allies. Maybe some of the hate for the WEST is due to the fact that their own corrupt governments use the money to pad themselves (say it isn't so).

All international airports will have Military Police Patrols that have FULL search, seizure, and detainment powers.

Or we could go Airborne - Kill'em all let God sort'em out

I agree with all of that except the military presence at every airpot wqith unchecked power.


We are in way too many countries that we don't need to be in, we have a weak defense, we can't even secure our own borders.

We need to stop with the foreign aid, spending millions for bith control in 3rd world countries, propping up Israel, giving 100b a year to 3rd world countries to combat global warming etc.

We need to do what people do in bad economic times, cut the fat and use our money wisely. It's that simple.

Your right - UNCHECKED power is what corrupts in the first place...

[jtwh20]

With the new airline rules, next time I fly I'll be wearing flip flops, a speedo and a tanktop - not pretty, but nothing to hide either

[sgreger1]

With the new airline rules, next time I fly I'll be wearing flip flops, a speedo and a tanktop - not pretty, but nothing to hide either

Lol, the airliner security is all a dog and pony show if you ask me. They seem to pick the easy targets.

Every single time I flew in ACU's when switching duty stations I was picked for "random inspection" and searched. It's because they know your no threat and choose the easy targets, meanwhile beat down nigerians on the terrorist watchlist sans a passport and armed with a bomb get rushed through in a hurry.

[jtwh20]

With the new airline rules, next time I fly I'll be wearing flip flops, a speedo and a tanktop - not pretty, but nothing to hide either

Lol, the airliner security is all a dog and pony show if you ask me. They seem to pick the easy targets.

Every single time I flew in ACU's when switching duty stations I was picked for "random inspection" and searched. It's because they know your no threat and choose the easy targets, meanwhile beat down nigerians on the terrorist watchlist sans a passport and armed with a bomb get rushed through in a hurry.

I hear ya! - but according to the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security "the system worked" , so searching blond women in beachwear and taking your shoes off must be the way to go

[sgreger1]

Lol, yah she had to withdraw her statement and admit that the system infact did not work. You know... since the bomber did in fact mix the explosives in the bathroom and then ignite it. It was just lucky that it malfunctioned and lit himself on fire instead. <-- LOLz

Irony at it's finest. Yet he had a message that at least 25 others from yemen are plotting attacks on airliners, therefore his goal was complete, spreading fear that we could be attacked anywhere at any time, also putting an emphasis on Yemen. Expect gov officials to be talking about how Yeme is the new bad guys in coming months.

[jtwh20]

EDIT:
Want to stop global warming? Tax the polluters. That simple.
Want to stop our soldiers from dying? Stop going to war and focus on defense unless provoked to do otherwise.

If someone like hitler wants to try to take overthe world, than by all means we must stop it. But to fight ideology is to fight an enemy that cannot be defeated.

We have gone full retard in this country with our spending, as well as how much trust we afford to the federal government.

Well Said!!!

Now how do we get everybody else to see how simple this really is / could be handled?

Full Retard - Never go Full Retard - that's just good advice

[sgreger1]

EDIT:
Want to stop global warming? Tax the polluters. That simple.
Want to stop our soldiers from dying? Stop going to war and focus on defense unless provoked to do otherwise.

If someone like hitler wants to try to take overthe world, than by all means we must stop it. But to fight ideology is to fight an enemy that cannot be defeated.

We have gone full retard in this country with our spending, as well as how much trust we afford to the federal government.

Well Said!!!

Now how do we get everybody else to see how simple this really is / could be handled?

Full Retard - Never go Full Retard - that's just good advice

Lol, saw tropic thunder again this weekend so had to drop that one in.

Really though, it seems that politicians always have to overcomplicate things. To stop polluters who contribute to global warming, make it expensive to pollute. Carbon credits allows them to still pollute but but their way out of it. Just tax the polluters.

And this one goes for the republicans too. You want fiscal responsibility? Well we are spending too much on our defense budget, and it should eb the first thing to get scrapped. I am for a strong defense. Again, defense. There is no country trying to invade, therefore we do notneed to be at war.

We lose more than 3,000 people in a war, so we are losing more than 9-11 every few years, plus it costs way more than rebuilding the WTC which we still havn't done.

Could have saved another 3,000+ lives and a trillion+ dollars by just immediately rebuilding the WTC and givingthe middle east the finger.

[Bigblue1]

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.- Benjamin Franklin

[truthwolf1]

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.- Benjamin Franklin

I guess we have gone close to a decade in the hole on that one.
This really smells of a false flag Cia/Mossad/Military Industrial Complex/Shadow government game of let's keep the war on terror going type of deal.

If there really were terrorists do you really think the Government would not of started to heavily guard our southern and northern borders for strays? Gee, if I was a terrorist would I go in the front door and risk a chance of being caught or the back door?

Why in close to 10 years have there only been a few minor threats that smell of the scenarios of low iq American muslims getting a push by a FBi informants to buy guns or blow things up?

You would think with so many mad Jihadists that there would be places like Starbucks and Burger Kings blowing up every week.

[tom502]

Seems the "powers that be" took a "let's just watch and see what happens" on this. Luckily the guy couldn't pull it off. But he did show it could be done.

[olderthandirt]

The main cause of religious terrorism is ignorance.

The best (and cheapest) approach would be to simply carpet bomb the entire middle east once a week with honda generators, laptops, solar panels, broadband routers and satellite comms.

As soon as the majority of people in ignorant-**** countries have continual free access to information and the ability to educate themselves, there will no longer be any dumb-as-shit, no-reference-to-reality, hick mutha****ers that will believe anything a charismatic "religious" leader tells them.

Oh. Wait a minute....

Are you advocating that we bomb the bible belt with a bunch of cell phones with access to twitter? lol.

Your right though, I hope that we can keep the internet free and open long enough so that everyone in the world will have access and we can all exchange information and opinions and realize how much alike we all really are. ( I know you were being sarcastic, but still)

The muslims in the middle east are constantly bombarded with stories about how in the US American's kill their own grandmothers for the country etc and in America we are constantly bombarded with how evil Muslims everywhere are. It's more of an information war than an actual war.

Some of the Iraqi's near the Baji oil refinery where my unit deployed last believed that we all wore red berret's because we had to kill a family member to prove our allegiance to the unit before you could be a paratrooper, and that the red was actually the blood of said family member. And they also believed that we always wore eye protection or night vision goggles because we were some kind of cyborgs engineered by the US government to exterminate Muslims.

At the risk of seeming conspiracy bent as well, I can't help but believe the incidents the last couple of days were probably cases of "Wag the Dog".

The factors of ignorance cited by sgreger and adm are all to real IMHO. I'm thinking other as a response to this thread.

The religious zealots wouldn't have anywhere near the canon fodder to work with if the standards of living in the countries that have such hate for the "West" was higher than it is. Carpet bomb with sources of information is actually a brilliant suggestion. Along with that some good ol' fashioned capitalism used wisely could succeed where militaristic efforts will always fail.

Quickest way to boost the standard of living would be access to cheap energy. Trade infrastructures build on that. The world needs to get off of oil for a variety of reasons. Put this together now...

Manhattan style project to really develop alternative energy production of all the usual suspects, wind, solar, wave, bio.

SELL the end design methodologies to all the developing countries CHEAP. Also sell maintenance contracts for the power generating methodologies. Of course these contracts are much more expensive than the initial product.

Result?

We get off of oil, good.
Developing countries have energy with which to grow economies on, good.
With viable economies they will be to busy working real jobs and going to malls to spend their new wealth to bother wanting to blow anyone up, good.
We continue to make a profit with the maintenance contracts long after the initial sales, good.
No need for troops in combat, good.

Just sayin'...

[sgreger1]

At the risk of seeming conspiracy bent as well, I can't help but believe the incidents the last couple of days were probably cases of "Wag the Dog".

The factors of ignorance cited by sgreger and adm are all to real IMHO. I'm thinking other as a response to this thread.

The religious zealots wouldn't have anywhere near the canon fodder to work with if the standards of living in the countries that have such hate for the "West" was higher than it is. Carpet bomb with sources of information is actually a brilliant suggestion. Along with that some good ol' fashioned capitalism used wisely could succeed where militaristic efforts will always fail.

Quickest way to boost the standard of living would be access to cheap energy. Trade infrastructures build on that. The world needs to get off of oil for a variety of reasons. Put this together now...

Manhattan style project to really develop alternative energy production of all the usual suspects, wind, solar, wave, bio.

SELL the end design methodologies to all the developing countries CHEAP. Also sell maintenance contracts for the power generating methodologies. Of course these contracts are much more expensive than the initial product.

Result?

We get off of oil, good.
Developing countries have energy with which to grow economies on, good.
With viable economies they will be to busy working real jobs and going to malls to spend their new wealth to bother wanting to blow anyone up, good.
We continue to make a profit with the maintenance contracts long after the initial sales, good.
No need for troops in combat, good.

Just sayin'...

You bring up an interesting point. See, the advertised plan of the US is to go over there, kill as many insurgents as possible, all while training their own forces to help police the place after we leave.

From my experience in the army, not directly my experience but from talking to and being surrounded by many people who have been deploying since the initial invasion, is this:

While the stated US goal is not a lie, I think a bigger reason for us going over there is the amount of money to be made. Actually there is the money purpose, and a secondary byproduct of that which is making the place less violent. It goes like this:

Lets just look at Iraq
We go into Iraq to combat terrorism etc. In the process, of course, lots of gov money will go to contractors to build bases. So we spend billions on forward operating bases etc until we have lots of those. Then we make those bases better; by installing Taco Bell and Subway sandwich shops at eat location. The overall reason why we spent so much money on these permanent bases is that we didn’t plan to leave in a hurry. I think that a lot of the money people saw an opportunity here. Here we have a region that the corporate/western world has left almost untouched. They live in what we would define as the past, yet there is a significant amount of the population that actually embraces western things like Starbucks, Hollywood or wearing western clothes etc. The problem is that the militant radicals see this as a bad thing so they oppress their people to try and get anything western out of their country. But what if we could build McDonalds and burger king and shopping malls over there. What if we could install a democratic government and pump a bunch of money into the place and make it into a thriving economy. The people would then not only embrace western practices (and America) but would spend all their money on consumer goods like we do here in the states. And then, as a byproduct, you get more peace. Look at the USA, the reason why we don’t have as many radicals and militants here as 3rd world countries is because we have a pretty kush lifestyle and are not therefore inclined to pick up a weapon. We are happy living in our house and shopping at Westfield shopping centers, seeing movies etc.


I think the larger goal was to “westernize” the middle east for money, and in theory if they were richer they would spend less time committing Jihad and more time shopping. For a poor person living in the desert, the idea of virgins and free camels upon death means that life has little value, so they are inclined to commit Jihad. But if they were living like Americans and shopping, than they would have a good life and not want to die. Americans have a greater fear of death then most 3rd world country inhabitants because we have “more” to live for to a degree.


Obviously the plan didn’t work out as well as they thought and it seems that we instead have pumped billions into the country without getting any solid return on investment. This is, like you pointed out, is because we didn’t first spend money on infrastructure. Most of Iraq goes without clean, accessible water, without any type of garbage service or sewage system (which is why the streets are filled with trash and shit). They go without proper energy solutions or proper medical equipment as well.


If we really wanted to win this in a way where we could collect some return on investment, we would go there, build an energy grid, sewage system etc and after the infrastructure is better the Iraqi’s will be happy and be more inclined to embrace a western lifestyle. We could then move in with the fast food and shopping malls and make some money, all the while the amount of poor people willing to blow themselves up so that their family gets to eat for the next year will have been reduced.

Problem solved, and like in any good war, there are some spoils to go to the victor.

[olderthandirt]

@sgreger
That's why I stipulated a "wise" application of capitalism. If, as you focused, there had been more attention on infrastructure there would have been some prospect for profit as well as peace.

My $0.02, while admittedly simplistic is nonetheless something that I feel would obviate the need for war. There is no doubt in my mind that all peoples, all faiths, would have a better chance at coexistence if the degree of separation of the haves and have-nots were not so disparate.

This is by no means a tree-hugger thing either!

If a practicing Muslim in the Middle East, in the most devout of sects, had the opportunity to take a shower, go to work in a safe environment, stop for groceries on his way home, have dinner, watch the news on TV, order up his favorite snus and snuff off the interweb, and then sleep in clean sheets at the end of the day... does anybody really think he'd expend much energy on wearing explosive diapers? I think not!

The wisdom comes from setting this guy up in such a way and make a profit at the same time. Sans the freaking bullets!

Pie in the sky huh...

[sgreger1]

If a practicing Muslim in the Middle East, in the most devout of sects, had the opportunity to take a shower, go to work in a safe environment, stop for groceries on his way home, have dinner, watch the news on TV, order up his favorite snus and snuff off the interweb, and then sleep in clean sheets at the end of the day... does anybody really think he'd expend much energy on wearing explosive diapers? I think not!

This is why Muslims in America do not blow shit up every single week of the calendar year like they do in Iraq/Afghanistan. It's not worth it, there's too much to lose.

There will always be "that guy", the Timothy Mcveigh of society, but 99% of it would end if, like you said, they had a decent life.

Muslims in America are much more moderate and less extremist than those in 3rd world countries, and the ones here who are militant usually has something to do with us being at war with the middle east. If there was no war and everyone had it like American's did, there would be no extremism.



Pie in the sky would be utopian communism. Applied capitalism works, which is why I am on this computer (while at work), drinking cofee instead of strapping bombs to my knickers.

[olderthandirt]

... Applied capitalism works, which is why I am on this computer (while at work), drinking cofee instead of strapping bombs to my knickers.

hehe