Let Us Honor True Greatness!

[RRK]

Not if the South Koreans listen to what the former German president Richard von Weizsäcker suggested on a state visit back in 1991, namely to reject the idea of a Korean reunion, to not make the same mistake that West Germany had made. And according to the fact that the reunion appeared to be a real possibility in the 90's and is almost utopian nowadays, they probably have listened.

Cheers!

It might not be the smartest idea but I think the Koreans still consider themselves one people and after a collapse or rebellion I think that the South Koreans would be willing to sacrifice in order to help out their brothers and sisters up north. But, I'm not really basing that statement on any facts, mostly hope.

BTW, great post Roo.

[tom502]

In Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism, you will find the swastika alot, and not just "reversed", it's used both ways.

[Judge Faust]

My wife works with a women who along with her husband defected from Siberia through Greece in the late eighties. She talks about how bad the Soviet Union was compared to the US all the time. Mostly about the health care and education systems. The only criticism I have heard from her of the US is that since she was an ice skater in the Soviet Union she thinks it is sad that in the US only the rich girls get to try to be ice skaters.
One of my land lords during college was also a defector from the Soviet Union. He was a doctor and very patriotic towards the US. He felt like being a doctor in the Soviet Union was a horrible experience compared to the US.
My wife also works with a man who along with his wife are from China. He pretty much hates the culture here and can't stand that his kids are completely Americanized. He would love to move back to China but as a GIS programmer he just can't provide for his family the way that he can here. He makes about 80k working for the City of Columbus.

Really? Defectors tend to hold a relatively low opinion of the country from which they defected? What a novel concept. :wink:

When I immigrate to China, you can bet that I'll be condemning the American Empire to anyone willing to listen. I will describe it as a hell on Earth, and I will vocally belittle its policies and doctrines. I hope that the people that deign to listen to me will not automatically assume that my opinion is the ONLY opinion on the subject.

[Judge Faust]

[
North Korea is a one party democracy with an "eternal president". They rely completely on food and energy aid from other countries. They along with Cuba are the only 100% state owned economies in the world. They trade black market weapons and drugs. They have the highest infant mortality rate in the world.

"One party democracy." Perfect. If there is ever to be an ideal form of government, this is it.

"Eternal president." In a purely symbolic role. If Britain can have a figurehead monarch with no actual power, I don't see why our North Korean brethren cannot venerate their now-deceased founder.

Everything else - you have got to stop listening to Western propaganda. The Empire is no friend of North Korea; its analysis of North Korea ought not be taken as gospel.

It might not be the smartest idea but I think the Koreans still consider themselves one people and after a collapse or rebellion I think that the South Koreans would be willing to sacrifice in order to help out their brothers and sisters up north. But, I'm not really basing that statement on any facts, mostly hope.

I doubt it. Too much bad blood, too big an ideological split for too long, and a 6-decades long war... I wouldn't hold my breath.

However, if reunification does happen, I see no reason to assume that the North will be doing the collapsing and the South doing the sacrificing... As a mental exercise, why don't you try inverting the equation? Nothing currently makes one scenario more probable than the other.

[Judge Faust]

Judge, as a fellow Sinophile, I am shocked at your declaration of China as a beacon of freedom. I have traveled there extensively and considered moving there myself on many occasions, but to claim to appreciate the politics of a governemnt that thrives on corruption, bribery, oppression, torture and execution of political dissent, lies, and extreme censorship of all media is -- I'll put it nicely -- ****ing odd, dude.

Perception is all a matter of opinion, my friend.

You see corruption and bribery. I see a wonderfully effective government that has unified the people, restored national pride and sovereignty, and turned an anachronistic backwater into a global superpower in an unprecedentedly short period of time.

Let's assume that we're both right (which I am not actually conceding). Do your negatives outweigh my positives? Not by a long shot. Even if all that you say is true, it's still worth it.

Most of my Chinese friends who both trust me enough to say so and are intelligent enough to see through the lies have expressed great sorrow for their lack of basic freedoms. Hardly a beacon.

You know what's interesting? I often hear comments such as this: "Most of the people in [insert socialist nation] lied to me and told me that everything is great. But some were brave and smart enough to tell me that everything sucks."

You see the problem? It automatically assumes that anyone that tells you things that you don't wish to hear is a cowardly liar. Perhaps that's not what you're going for here, but that's how it sounds from where I'm sitting...

To get back to the topic, let us not confuse Lenin with Stalin. While Lenin was no angel of mercy and compassion, he remains a cultural hero to the ex-Soviet diaspora. (On a side note, I live less than a mile from what I believe is the only statue of the man in the US). He was to Stalin what Zhou Enlai was to Mao Zedong; an ambitious idealist whose vision was vastly distorted and employed with disasterous results by his successor upon his demise.

I agree, to a certain degree. Stalin did distort Lenin's philosophy, and his paranoia did make him an erratic and dangerous ruler. Furthermore, I would argue that Stalin's legacy was the main reason for the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union.

On the other hand, he did annihilate NAZI Germany, and that's a pretty positive achievement in my book.

Then again, we probably would have been able to do that anyway... So, in the final analysis, Stalin should have been taken out and shot as a traitor to our people.

However, Mao Zedong was another truly great human being. Not an able administrator, to be sure, but still a glorious visionary in his own right. He's certainly on my top-10 best people ever list...

Before you ask: Lenin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Che, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Lukashenko, Putin. That's the list (not in any order - they're all great).

[Premium Parrots]

However, Mao Zedong was another truly great human being. Not an able administrator, to be sure, but still a glorious visionary in his own right. He's certainly on my top-10 best people ever list...

Before you ask: Lenin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Che, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Lukashenko, Putin. That's the list (not in any order - they're all great).

you left out Moe, Larry and Curley

[Ainkor]

I had a very strange turkey induced dream yesterday, I figured this would be a great place to share it.....


I was a television journalist and I was interviewing Putin in England.

It was a filmed interview, but not live.

We sat down and had a round of introductions and Putin stopped me mid-sentence and laid down a photograph on the table between us.

It was a slightly overhead shot of me with a gun in my hand pointed at Putin. Next, he started a video showing me shooting him point blank in the chest.

He stated that he wanted to thank me ahead of time for helping him realize his goal of a reunified Soviet Russia and that since my failed assassination attempt vaulted him back into power he felt bad for what they were about to do to me. He said he planned to use the incident to re-fire the east/west cold war engine and this staged event was just the ticket.

He said that I was shot twice by his personal body guards after the attempt and died on the spot. He was pretty sure I would go down in history as a great person for my attempt at killing him and he was sure that the west would honor me once they get down to the business of making himself a villain.

Again, he thanked me for allow us to stage this event and that he would always remember what I did to help him secure a Soviet Russia that he would be proud of.

I felt a cold gun barrel to the back of my head and then I woke up.

For some reason I felt oddly British in my dream.

[RRK]

Everything else - you have got to stop listening to Western propaganda. The Empire is no friend of North Korea; its analysis of North Korea ought not be taken as gospel.

...and what information do you have to make you think these things are not true.

[tom502]

I think it telling the US is at odds with Iran and N.Korea, but are friends with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and India even. I love Indian "stuff", but god, that place is a shambles of mismanagment, just slightly better than Pakistan. I mean, we all(well, the US) dis N.Korea because they had some starving people, and we question their freedoms, yet look at the nations the US is allies with, N.Korea feels threatened by the US Imperialistic world bullying, and it's record of invading and bombing other nations, I agree they need a nuclear deterrant. And while Iran claims they don't want a nuclear bomb, and that may be true, I think they need one, just like at Iraq. It's like if a country does not bow down to the US bullying and corporate exploitation, then they are an enemy of America.

Edit: I also think the image the US tries to promote is the rich celebrity, everyone happy in the happy land image, yet we have a failed government, mass unemployment, filled prisons, uncontrolled crime, uncontrolled borders, massive homeless, massive poverty. I think compared to the nations on our "enemy" list, we are failed more than they are on providing a safe, stable society for it's citizens.

[MasterGuns]

In soviet Russia, music illegally downloads YOU!

best thing to come out of the Soviet Union...PROPAGANDA MUSIC!!
all the rest is more or less garbage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91kdwxFsthI

[RRK]

First of all I would say that all of these countries do have problems though they are all different and N. Korea is at the bottom of that spectrum. Second no one is saying they admire these other countries while you said you admire N. Korea. Third N. Korea and Iran are not only at odds with the US but they are at odds with virtually the whole world.

[tom502]

A clean, highly intelligent, orderly, lawful nation, with an idealistic ideology is at a lower spectrum than Pakistan? Well, it only shows that we all see things in our own way.

[RRK]

A clean, highly intelligent, orderly, lawful nation, with an idealistic ideology is at a lower spectrum than Pakistan? Well, it only shows that we all see things in our own way.

What research are you basing these opinions on? I think there is a good argument that Pakistani citizens are worse off in many ways but I would personally rather be a Pakistani then a N. Korean because I could choose to move. I think anarchy is desirable over totalitarianism any day.

[sgreger1]

Yes, I wish to one day immigrate to China. Not only is it a beacon of freedom, but it is the undisputed future master of our world. I may as well switch sides now - I love China's politics, so this is a no-brainer.

Lol, china is a beacon of freedom? Well enjoy working in your factory for dollars an hour (if that) with crappy labor laws making sweaters to I may enjoy buying them at low prices. I dont even know where you are coming from sometimes Judge. I know two people who escaped soviet Russia before it fell and love America because of how much greater it is here, and more free.

Either way, enjoy leaching off the US while you dis it.

[sgreger1]

While I agree America has its downfalls like any large country, the anti-american sentiment on Snuson is getting out of control. You are all a bunch of hypocrites, living in our country enjoying its (many) benefits, yet turning around and talking about how N korea and China are more free and happy than America.

Your all a bunch of traitors, and if this were China or N Korea you would be shot as a dissident. Maybe they are on to something. I think half of you on Snuson are privaledged kids sitting on your laptop bought at Walmart who have nothing better to do than slam america while hailing some of the most despotic nations on earth as great places to live. The doublespeak on this forum is insane, communism is freedom, bribery and corruption are good gov models, people starving is utopian.

If you all hate America so much, than gtfo and quit your bitching. And Judge, the most ass backwards failure of a political analyist of all time, you hate America because you live in San Francisco. I would rather live in N Korea than the bay area, so I don't blame you.


To everyone else who thinks America is worse than 3rd world countries run by dictators, **** you and get out into the real world someday and realize how comfy a life you have here. We ain't perfect, but we're better than most.