Discussion On President Obama

[VBSnus]

Oh absolutely there were more factors. I think the biggest thing that got him elected was that he was someone other than Bush and not republican. lol. I'm just saying it sounded like you were saying him being black did not attract a huge amount of the black vote when I personally think that's an unrealistic claim to make.

It didn't attract the vote away from a white person, it just attracted voters that otherwise would not have voted. That is not the same as choosing based on race.

I am particularly getting tired of the race card being pulled for every little thing nowadays. Like that traitor Jimmy Carter claiming the "you lie!" incident was based on racism and nothing else. Of course it turns out that there will be no restrictions on illegals so Joe was actually telling the truth to an extent, and probably had nothing to do with racism at all.

That was just Jimmy Carter, and no one pays that doddering old fool any attention anyways. The problem with Joe's interruption was that it violated the rules of his job and is unbecoming his position. There's no way Republicans can accuse Barack Obama of being a polarizing figure when someone like Joe shouts an unsubstantiated accusation at the President during an official gathering of Congress. Whether or not the current Senate version of the healthcare bill does or does not cover illegals, shouting an accusation at the President while giving a speech before Congress was uncalled for and juvenile.

[sgreger1]

It didn't attract the vote away from a white person, it just attracted voters that otherwise would not have voted. That is not the same as choosing based on race.

Well I think it attracted people who normally would not have voted and also some voting blacks and the rest were all younger liberal whites. He won fair and square though so it doesn't even really matter. But race always plays into it at some level, especially when your tlaking about the first black president in the history of the republic.

That was just Jimmy Carter, and no one pays that doddering old fool any attention anyways. The problem with Joe's interruption was that it violated the rules of his job and is unbecoming his position. There's no way Republicans can accuse Barack Obama of being a polarizing figure when someone like Joe shouts an unsubstantiated accusation at the President during an official gathering of Congress. Whether or not the current Senate version of the healthcare bill does or does not cover illegals, shouting an accusation at the President while giving a speech before Congress was uncalled for and juvenile.

Yah I agree he maybe shouldn't have shouted it. When the congress was young back during the nation's inception it probbaly wouldn't have been so out of life but nowadays it's required that you be professional and he broke that rule.

I mean it would be like me as some private in the army jumping up while the General is speaking and screaming "You lie you damn commie!". I mean nothing but bad can come of that.


However, you have to realize that the republicans plan is to exploit the uncertainty some american's have with Obama and use it to their advantage. Everyone thinks he's a socialist (even though I kind peg him as more of a typical banker/big business type) so the republicans try and change their rhetoric in that direction. Much of their base doesn't like illegals so they figure if he shouts at Obama it will be historic, therefore making it seem like this is some fierce battle against a tyranical dictator (Obama) and that he (by shouting) is fighting "the good fight".

It's just political tactics like always.

Congress seems to have a lot of energy for bickering, yet not enough energy to read the bills or use their vote wisely. Kinda backwards.

[VBSnus]

However, you have to realize that the republicans plan is to exploit the uncertainty some american's have with Obama and use it to their advantage. Everyone thinks he's a socialist (even though I kind peg him as more of a typical banker/big business type) so the republicans try and change their rhetoric in that direction. Much of their base doesn't like illegals so they figure if he shouts at Obama it will be historic, therefore making it seem like this is some fierce battle against a tyranical dictator (Obama) and that he (by shouting) is fighting "the good fight".

It's just political tactics like always.

Congress seems to have a lot of energy for bickering, yet not enough energy to read the bills or use their vote wisely. Kinda backwards.

My point exactly. How can you enact change while being stonewalled with political moves? How can you bring a country together when a party uses underhanded and divisive tactics to try to paint the President as a horrible person?

Unity is gone, that's all there is to it. There's more money to be made and more power to be had with divisiveness.

Look at the campaign slogans...they're still going on about socialized medicine even though the current bill is in NO way socialized medicine or even close, and the base goes nuts yelling about commies. Then the Republicans can blame the commie talk on Obama somehow and make it appear to be all his fault. It's obstructionism through outright lies and deceit.

The truth is that no noble Democrat will ever make this country right. The Republican party must find a way to recreate itself into a true conservative party because they are the only ones who can change the nation simply due to their absolute bullheadedness.

A noble and good Democratic candidate will be stonewalled by Republicans, forced into corners, and backstabbed by their own party. Republicans on the other hand are able to get bipartisan support because Democrats are either "thinkers" or plain out pussies, and a party based on ignorant and stalwart support will always comply with the leadership of the party.

For instance, imagine if George W Bush was a worthy President? One who really had good ideas to get things through? Even with his horrible policies he enjoyed broad Republican AND Democrat support.

[sgreger1]

My point exactly. How can you enact change while being stonewalled with political moves? How can you bring a country together when a party uses underhanded and divisive tactics to try to paint the President as a horrible person?

In all fairness the left did this to Bush for a lot of his term as well. Spent most of their time trying to paint him as an aweful person.
Although the dems are not as organized as the republicans so they could never pull off 0 VOTES FOR A BILL. <-- the fact this can happen is rediculous in and of itself.

Unity is gone, that's all there is to it. There's more money to be made and more power to be had with divisiveness.

I think they figureds this out a looooooong time ago.

Look at the campaign slogans...they're still going on about socialized medicine even though the current bill is in NO way socialized medicine or even close, and the base goes nuts yelling about commies.

Obama gets some of the blame for this. In his campaign he said he didn't like the idea of single payer system (since hilary did) and he didn't like the idea of individual mandates to buy insurance. Then he switched (after being elected) to he wants a 1 payer system and mandates. <-- this is where the socialism comments come from. Now fast forward to roughly a year later (way to long for 1 bill) we are finnaly seeing what this thing is going to look like and it is infact the opposite of a liberla wet dream. Infact i'm surprised mroe republicans aren't in support of it. Theres no socialized anything that I can see other than the mnadate (maybe but not really), and you can keep your private insurance, no public option etc. I mean without the public option, there is pretty much no more basis for the socialist arguments. In reality this is another handout to big insurance and orgs like the AARP who will be selling supplimental insurance etc. Nothing very commie about this bill in it's present form. At all.


Now some would say that it's a stepping stone towards a socialized system but you could kinda say that about anything. You could have said that about car insurance when they made that mandatory, but still no socialism in site.

The truth is that no noble Democrat will ever make this country right. The Republican party must find a way to recreate itself into a true conservative party because they are the only ones who can change the nation simply due to their absolute bullheadedness.

Noble democrat, lolz. The republican party may find it's roots once again but it's unlikely. The republican politicians see that the anti-obama people are applauding them because of "you lie!" statements and not voting for a bill which more than 50% of the american people don't want (HC reform), but if the republicans get elected I see no signs that they will do anything better. They seem to be the same group we saw the last 8 years, which (as we saw only a year ago) people DO NOT WANT RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

A noble and good Democratic candidate will be stonewalled by Republicans, forced into corners, and backstabbed by their own party. Republicans on the other hand are able to get bipartisan support because Democrats are either "thinkers" or plain out pussies, and a party based on ignorant and stalwart support will always comply with the leadership of the party.

The dems could have sealed the deal on this legislation a long time ago if it werent for people in their own party not being onboard. So your right, the dems won't ever get shit done. This is like their 3rd attempt at the HC reform thing and they still can barely squeak out a bill that may in some way be able to be called reform but really isn't.

More evidence for the case that the 2 part system needs to be dismantled. The majority of Americans are consistently left unrepresented as shown by every major poll for years. Most of America is independant and they always seem to not really approve of whoever's in charge. So there must be someone/some party that can fill the gap. You know, for the Real American's(TM)

For instance, imagine if George W Bush was a worthy President? One who really had good ideas to get things through? Even with his horrible policies he enjoyed broad Republican AND Democrat support.

That's because of his noble fight against terrorism of course! We have always been at war with terrorism...

[wa3zrm]

Oh... by the way... I don't care much about politics.

I just like to "stir the pot" :twisted:

[VBSnus]

Oh... by the way... I don't care much about politics.

I just like to "stir the pot" :twisted:

[truthwolf1]

Does anyone remember the late 90's?? Clintons era.

Especially if you were in the tech field. There were ample amounts of jobs with good salaries that actually had some buying power and there was not such a unrealistic priced real estate market. That house that inflated to $360,000 was actually $140,000 and semi affordable with the same salaries of today. A family could easily survive back then in a number of ways. I remember traveling much more and finding cheap tickets was a non-issue. People actually felt like they were getting ahead and using their minds to progress. Technology was opening all kinds doors from business to art and music. That was some serious good living in the USA going on back then. I have to say that in my lifetime that was the best I had seen so far.

A friend who has been laid off since last January asked when things are going to turn around like that again and I pretty much told him never. I mean I hope it does but my gut is telling me it is going to be a struggle for the rest of our lives now.

With globalization most of the better off countries lifestyles will slip down sharply while the poorer one's will go up. Having a one bedroom apartment with 5 or 6 people living in it with water and electricity rationing will be the new middle class.

The only way for a another great era is for another massive technological innovation but it would have to happen in the USA first like it did in the late 90's.

I also think a president who takes our sovereignty seriously as nation over anything else will extremely benefit this country.

[wa3zrm]

Does anyone remember the late 90's?? Clintons era.

Does anyone remember the Carter era... back when bonds were paying 16% to 18% and a 20+% variable interest rate on a home mortgage was common?

Carter promised change too :evil:

[sgreger1]

The only way for a another great era is for another massive technological innovation but it would have to happen in the USA first like it did in the late 90's.

This is absolutely true. I don't think Clinton was too great of a President but he did manage to fall during a time where the tech industry was booming and it made the US a very rich place to be (especially CA where I live ) So your right, unless we create some new industry or invent something game-changing like the PC, it's going to be rough, since our country doesnt really produce that much currently.

This is why I was really hoping Obama would juice up the space effort. If we are going to spend ludicrous amounts of cash, I think it should be spent on the space industry because not only do we get to be the first for historical things like walking on the moon, but the bi-product is lots of cool technologies that then filter down into the consumer market and that help generate money.

If there's one thing Obama's really got going for him it's the democrat tendancy to not hate science, but instead promote it. This is one thing that pisses me off about republicans, they view science as somehow anti-conservative, when it was science/technology that made this country great (and rich). But with India and Japan producing scientists and PHD's at double the rate we are, it's not looking good for us in terms of remaining the technological leaders anymore. That needs to change.

[truthwolf1]

Does anyone remember the late 90's?? Clintons era.

Does anyone remember the Carter era... back when bonds were paying 16% to 18% and a 20+% variable interest rate on a home mortgage was common?

Carter promised change too :evil:

My old boss a Vietnam grunt would bitch for hours about those Carter interest rates he had to pay for a photo studio addition. I always thought he was kidding.

I agree with Sgreger1 that Clinton did fall into the tech boom years and I was not trying to thank/defend him for that but only trying to state that there has been a major slide in our standard of living since then.

[sgreger1]

I agree with Sgreger1 that Clinton did fall into the tech boom years and I was not trying to thank/defend him for that but only trying to state that there has been a major slide in our standard of living since then.

Yah your absolutely right. And I don't care who gets the credit this time around but it's time for America to pull another ace out of our sleeves like we always seemed to in the past.

I think Obama's edge with the global warming/cap and trade thing is regardless of whether AGW is as big a threat as advertised, he thinks it will usher in a new "green" industry of which he is hoping America will be at the forefront of. He's probably right. As far as I can see this GW thing is being blown way out of proportion for political gain, but if it catches on, which it seems it will, it will allow us the oppertunity to be green tech leaders and maybe boost the economy.

Hell right now may be a great time to get into some sort of degree that would land you in this industry as I expect it will probably grow from this point on since environmental awareness / end of the world hype has become common place.

[truthwolf1]

Yes the green industry is definately the next wave. I can see a huge future market for solar panels, water catchers and waste to energy devices. When utilities start to double in price you will start seeing a neighbor or two with some new energy saving device and you will end up buying one also. That in effect will start to get investors and buyers and the whole machine running again.
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[sgreger1]

Yes the green industry is definately the next wave. I can see a huge future market for solar panels, water catchers and waste to energy devices. When utilities start to double in price you will start seeing a neighbor or two with some new energy saving device and you will end up buying one also. That in effect will start to get investors and buyers and the whole machine running again.
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HlTxGHn4sH4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Yah i've always been a fan of a lot of green things before it was cool, but they are so expensive. I lived part of my life in the desert so the idea of solar panels was always on my mind, and those aqua blue water condensers that makes up to 7 gallons of drinkable water a day just out of the humidity in the air (even in low humidity areas) is amazing.

The problem is all of this is not really affordable/practical for the average joe. If the demand gets higher and the industry adjusts prices based on that, I think a lot of the green problem will fix itself, sans the political power grabs. If it were cheaper I know I for one would have a plethora of green tech in my house.

[sagedil]

I agree with Sgreger1 that Clinton did fall into the tech boom years and I was not trying to thank/defend him for that but only trying to state that there has been a major slide in our standard of living since then.

Yah your absolutely right. And I don't care who gets the credit this time around but it's time for America to pull another ace out of our sleeves like we always seemed to in the past.

I think Obama's edge with the global warming/cap and trade thing is regardless of whether AGW is as big a threat as advertised, he thinks it will usher in a new "green" industry of which he is hoping America will be at the forefront of. He's probably right. As far as I can see this GW thing is being blown way out of proportion for political gain, but if it catches on, which it seems it will, it will allow us the oppertunity to be green tech leaders and maybe boost the economy.

Hell right now may be a great time to get into some sort of degree that would land you in this industry as I expect it will probably grow from this point on since environmental awareness / end of the world hype has become common place.

Wow, didn't think the one time sgreger1 and I would come sort of close to agreeing on anything the one time it happens a year would be so soon in 2010.

But this one part I know. America is currently the hands down leader in developing green technology. No other country is even close to us right now. So the world decides to get serious, we would be HUGE benificiaries of it.

Look folks. Whatever you think about the whole "global warming" thing, and I just won't go there right now. Oil is gonna eventually run out. Hell, in a couple of hundred years, we won't even have any coal left. So why not figure out now how to move beyond it. With the added benefit of supercharging a whole new manufacturing base for us. Just seems win/win to me..

[sgreger1]

Wow, didn't think the one time sgreger1 and I would come sort of close to agreeing on anything the one time it happens a year would be so soon in 2010.

Lol, gotta start the new year off right!

But this one part I know. America is currently the hands down leader in developing green technology. No other country is even close to us right now. So the world decides to get serious, we would be HUGE benificiaries of it.

Look folks. Whatever you think about the whole "global warming" thing, and I just won't go there right now. Oil is gonna eventually run out. Hell, in a couple of hundred years, we won't even have any coal left. So why not figure out now how to move beyond it. With the added benefit of supercharging a whole new manufacturing base for us. Just seems win/win to me..

I'm fiercly against cap-and trade etc, but I am certainly of the crowd that believes it is a good idea (global warming or not) to change our means of developing energy.

The US I think waited strategicly to not push the AGW thing untill we were postured to be the leaders of it when the ball finally dropped. Now that we are there, we see the gov pushing the need for green energy much more. No matter which way you slice it, this is a good thing. CA especially could benefit from the green tech thing because we are big, are partially desert (solar panels) and we are broke so need a new cash cow.

Apparently they don't want to place the new 40,000 acre solar farm here because it may kill a dozen rare tortoises so we will likely not be the first in the nation to do so, but still prospects are high. We can solve the war on terror with sustainable energy as well. If we could figure out how to make clean (or at least cheap, sustainable) energy and use it (as opposed to buying it from people like Sadam/Iran), we could then sell off the excess to other countries. Oh, how the tables would turn!!

This means we have less reason to be invading foreign countries, and it would also stabilize the dollar as this new energy we export would be sold in USD, therefore increasing demand > increasing the $'s value.

We could really hit one out of the ballpark with this green enrgy thing. We've done it before with computers, space programs, defense technology etc, why not do it again now, just when it looks like we're finnally done for. Then we can bring all of our troops back home and give all of the other countries the finger. We can push green energy as the new hotness (since we sell it), and dub burning oil as old-and-busted.

That's like 3 problems solved at once. If Obama pulls that off, I will forgive his many lackings and hail him as at least having saved us from certain doom. Then we can enjoy another 50 years of abundance and deal with the next crisis at a later time.