Made in China...

[lxskllr]

I'm trying to think of a product or invention that people dug from the Eastern Block.

AK47 and those wooden nesting dolls from Russia :^P

[Starcadia]

Really? Were you alive during the cold war? I'm trying to think of a product or invention that people dug from the Eastern Block.

And yes, I even annoy myself with these know it all posts

Yes, I was alive during the last decades of the Cold War. Their science and industry was pretty outstanding, for one, you have to admit, enough so that the USA had to struggle in a race with them on many fronts. Culturally, they weren't dormant, and artists of all kinds were actively pushing expression during the various stages of Communist Russia. I personally find the propagandist sculpture, architecture, literature, music and art (posters, for example) highly charged with creative genius.

[Dead Rabbit]

Really? Were you alive during the cold war? I'm trying to think of a product or invention that people dug from the Eastern Block.

And yes, I even annoy myself with these know it all posts

Yes, I was alive during the last decades of the Cold War. Their science and industry was pretty outstanding, for one, you have to admit, enough so that the USA had to struggle in a race with them on many fronts. Culturally, they weren't dormant, and artists of all kinds were actively pushing expression during the various stages of Communist Russia. I personally find the propagandist sculpture, architecture, literature, music and art (posters, for example) highly charged with creative genius.

I actually knew you were going to say propaganda posters. Fair enough, I think they are pretty cool too. And while there were some artists (nothing compared to the free world) as you say, you kind of made my point for me. Nobody heard of them (except super smart dudes like yourself), hence their voice was restricted by the repressive nature of the government.

Innovation and art/creativity do not have the same meaning (in my mind). I see “innovation” as something with pragmatic utility outside the realm of aesthetics. Not that aesthetics isn’t important; it’s just that I was originally yapping about the economy and the innovative goods that drive up demand. This is quantifiable, outside the subjective nature of you and me digging Soviet propaganda art.

Hell, just start with the Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band and end with the Ipod you can now listen to it with and “propaganda posters” seem kind of laughable, don’t you think?

[Dead Rabbit]

I’m not saying the Eastern Block people are stupid or anything. And in some areas where they had government backing (the symphony) they had success. I’m saying the creative genius of the people in the Eastern Block was, as a whole, destroyed by the Soviets.

Dude, yeah, a few cool things came out of the brutal totalitarianism of the Soviet Era, but your going up against every innovation/invention of the free world here.

Their science and industry sucked, by the way. Yeah, slave labor and a command economy gave some initial success in huge projects like the space program, but have you ever rode in a 1980’s Skoda? What industry are you talking about? Slaves building massive damns while dying in the gulag to complete the job? The Western World completely dominated the Soviets in science and industry. If more people understood exactly to what extent this domination really was, maybe the Americans wouldn’t have gone to Viet Nam.

[Starcadia]

I'm listening.

I mentioned the posters since I thought they were something you might be familiar with, culturally.

Anyway, I though we were talking about genius in general, not just industrial innovation. You said, "But improving stuff requires individual genius. Unlike Japan and America, not sure China is fertile with incentive for individual genius." That's what I responded to. I apologize if you were talking strictly about technological industry.

Meanwhile, you've probably heard of several of the great and influential Soviet era artists.

Ever seen a Tarkovsky film? He's my favorite. Great stuff.

Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Malevich? It would be a long list. And they weren't all sucking on the Soviet teat, either.

[Zero]

Well, I think the point that you can't stop genius is valid - there will always be talented people and no system of government can stop that. But with the State controlling so much of the country, and its finances, it means that genius alone is often not enough. One needs to have that genius recognised by someone and they need to have sufficient access to resources to turn that genius into something one might call "innovative", at least in terms of technology. This was certainly lacking in the Soviet Union. If you look at where they really excelled, it was definitely in the arts and in science "on paper". Their writers, poets, film makers, musicians - all were of a technically and artistically high calibre. In the sciences the Soviets were well known for their mathematical and analytical skills. Some of the best papers in mathematics and theoretical physics came out of the Soviet Union - all one needed was a pencil and paper. In terms of engineering, however, the funds were simply not there to go "all out" in spending on required materials. Their designs were often low budget and high durability - lacking refinements, but tough as hell. Refrigerators were things that stayed in the family for more than a single generation, for example .

Here's an interesting article by someone who lived through the Soviet era and its subsequent collapse. His perspective is very interesting.

http://madconomist.com/what-if-us-co...-needs-to-know

[ponysoprano]

interesting, a buddy of mine and I have frequently talked about Soviet technology being clunky and awkward, but durable and utilitarian. The Kalashnikov is a good example, but the original design was way ahead of its time, and the gun industry is littered with clones and knock offs. Maybe that's one case where the man had the resources. Every country wants more powerful soldiers and weapons. It's a shame that warriors and war machines alone tended to get Soviet money and resources and not artists, writers and teachers.

[Starcadia]

^^The MiG fighters were similar. Apparently they were built strong, simple, and easy to fix.

[Slydel]

The FDA is freaked out. So many commodities are purchased from China. Since I work for a food company, I have seen the FDA grabbing samples of commodities for testing. Also, seems the food industry is worried too. My parents are finally getting a good price for their apples, for juice and domestic use. I know that there was a freeze in the US that would drive prices up, but I don't think that there was a big freeze in China. We educated the Chinese in agriculture and have been paying the price for years. Maybe that is now unraveling? On a different note, I thought there was a leak on the internet of a Chinese astronaut giving an interview in space........before the launch even occurred. Did anyone hear or read about that. Is this Chinese space exploration a farce?

[Zero]

I'm don't have in-depth knowledge of China's space program, but my suspicion is that there are enough nations with capability to detect and track the launch of an orbital vehicle that there would be no way that China could claim to have been in orbit without actually sending something up. It's not like space shuttle launches are particularly stealthy endeavours. You really wake up the neighbours when you fire that sucker up there. People would notice if all they heard were crickets from across the verge.

[Starcadia]

Oh shit, are the Chinese lip-syncing their launches with a prettier rocket? :x

[pcguy]

China is a lot of things all at once. They are certainly the awakening giant. Just think how far they have come in just the past 15 years, it's shocking. The next 15 will accelerate even more rapidly for sure.

[Grim]

In all honesty i think the toque tins were made in china.

You should see the residue from the tins i get on my hands every time i open it.

Like aluminum dust. Cant be healthy for the ol nostrils

[RobsanX]

In all honesty i think the toque tins were made in china.

You should see the residue from the tins i get on my hands every time i open it.

Like aluminum dust. Cant be healthy for the ol nostrils

Maybe that's their proprietary nicotine enhancement ingredient... Aluminum shavings in the snuff... :wink: :lol:

[Toque Snuff]

No, they're made in England, but then again so were British Leyland cars. LOL!

Did you get this previous post

"Ok, it took a bit of effort but I have managed to replicate the alloy dust. First screw the lid on so tight as to shear the thread, then keeping the same pressure rotate the lid about 20-30 times until a fine alloy dust appears. Now wipe clean and start again this time the dust appears after only a couple of twists.

Grim, I would still like to see your tin, just to make sure.

Please email me your address so we can send replacements."

Grim I know you love our snuff and as you say in your email "im pretty stocked up on toque and have another order coming" but as CEO I feel it is my responsibility to you the customer and you shouldn't be buying more we should be sending it to you free!

Regards
Roderick