Ten killed in shooting at 'Dark Knight Rises' premiere: local radio

[Joe234]

Sometimes I have to take the side of Devil's advocate to stir up the discussion.

I am not for banning guns. I just question the need for 100 round magazines and
access to ammo online to a person such as the theater shooter.

This while felons who have done their time can't defend their life and family
with a firearm. Something wrong here.

[sgreger1]

The shooter bought four guns from his local gun shop. And 3000 ammo for a assault rifle, another 3000 for hand guns and 300 rounds for a shotgun.
Clearly the laws are not too good?

And what if he stabbed people to death with knives bought from a local grocery store or if he made a chemical weapon or explosive with contents from Lowe's or Home Depot, are we to shut it all down and not allow people to have drano and fertilizer anymore?

The fact is that what this man did was not about him being able to access guns easily, it was about him being crazy. Crazy people do things regardless and will choose whatever tools are available. Denying the rights of over 300 MILLION people to (not even) stop 1 guy from going insane is absolutely an overreaction.

I am just astounded at our European friends who are so cool with the government telling them they can not own weapons. As an American the concept is beyond me. Such simple freedoms can't even be comprehended by the rest of the world it seems. I hope they banned axes and knives and anything that can be used to make explosives in all of your respective countries as well.

[Nuusku]

The shooter bought four guns from his local gun shop. And 3000 ammo for a assault rifle, another 3000 for hand guns and 300 rounds for a shotgun.
Clearly the laws are not too good?

[Crow]

I don't know how you guys comfortably carry on the steets. But yeah Roo, comparing the UK to the US isn't easy. People were allowed to have rifles here not so long ago but after a couple of massacres the government banned them. I don't think we've had a massacre since.

UK Population: 63,162,000
US Population: 313,955,000

[Frosted]

Well, as I was just going from house to car to another house in winter wearing a 3 quarter length coat....the pistol was holstered and kept in the car glove compartment whilst travelling. If anything happened I wouldn't have had time to get to it anyway.
I couldn't leave it in view in the car.
I suppose I felt paranoid with it.
My uncle who was a prison governor was armed to the teeth at all times and was comfortable with it...but he had to be. He lived there.

[wa3zrm]

I'm used to guns. I know how to use them safely and I know the damage they do.
When I went to Northern Ireland on leave once I signed out a 9 mm. I didn't feel comfortable with it as I felt it made me a target. Also, it was way too much of a responsibility for me. I signed it back in the next day. I don't know how you guys comfortably carry on the steets.

You get use to it. The gun becomes part of your daily clothing. Don't know what sort of 9mm you signed out... but did you carry it concealed? From the way you are talking, it sounds like you were wearing it as a visible side arm. It's all a matter of getting use to carrying a concealed weapon. For me, it's the same as carrying my wallet. I usually conceal carry a Glock 17 without any problems.

[Frosted]

I'm used to guns. I know how to use them safely and I know the damage they do.
When I went to Northern Ireland on leave once I signed out a 9 mm. I didn't feel comfortable with it as I felt it made me a target. Also, it was way too much of a responsibility for me. I signed it back in the next day. I don't know how you guys comfortably carry on the steets. But yeah Roo, comparing the UK to the US isn't easy. People were allowed to have rifles here not so long ago but after a couple of massacres the government banned them. I don't think we've had a massacre since.

[willc]

New laws and more restrictions will never stop things like this from happening.
There will always be the unbalanced few who will commit atrocities such as this and legislation will not prevent it.

[OregonNative]

Jeez. Just woke up and saw the retarded comments. Sorry about that guys.....Too much to drink.

You are still all nuts though.

I'm sure I contributed. There are plenty though, and not all are mine.

[Frosted]

Jeez. Just woke up and saw the retarded comments. Sorry about that guys.....Too much to drink.

You are still all nuts though.

[OregonNative]

You do realise that Mexico has very strict gun laws right? Look at all the "good" that those laws have brought to their nation. We don't need fewer guns in our society, we need more gun education. It does not matter which country you live in, if you want to get something badly enough, you will get it. When you make owning guns illegal, you limit the access to people who are using them to defend their family or themselves. Hell, look at that Japanese cult that was able to obtain the parts needed to build (and detonate) a nuclear weapon in Australia.

Two weeks after I turned 21 (minimum age), I applied for my concealed carry weapons permit. I carry my firearm responsibly, as do millions of others. When I am home, my gun is unloaded and put into a safe. I'm not a redneck, I'm a typical American who takes full advantage of his freedom to possess a firearm. I work a 9-5 job, I have a college education, so one cannot assume that only "rednecks" carry firearms. I think the majority of gun owners are good, hard working people. It is part of the American culture, and I'm sorry that some people abuse this freedom, but at least we have the freedom to carry a firearm in self defense.

A little bit of light reading for you.
http://www.humanevents.com/2009/01/2...e-life-savers/

Now, out of respect for those poor souls who lost their lives, I am done arguing this point. I think we have beaten this horse to death, and we need to take some time to show some respect for those who have fallen. If you'd like to continue this discussion, I'd be more than happy to chat via PM with you. Now as for the those who have died, RIP brothers & sisters. I pray for the dead, and their families during this difficult time.

RIP

[Joe234]

Title: Homicide, Suicide, & Unintentional Firearm Fatality: Comparing the U.S. With Other High-Income Countries, 2003
Publication Date: June 2010
What does it say?
Firearm deaths in 23 populous high-income countries were compared for 2003, based on data from the international World Health Organization. Consistent with past research, the United States had far higher rates of firearm deaths compared with the combined rates of 22 other high-income countries.

The United States has more firearms per capita than the other countries, more handguns per capita, and has the most permissive gun control laws of all the countries.

Remarkably, among the 23 countries studied, 80% of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States; 86 % of women killed by firearms were U.S. women, and 87% of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by firearms were U.S. children.

U.S. homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries, despite similar non-lethal crime and violence rates (as reported in other studies). The firearm homicide rate in the U.S. was 19.5 times higher.

The researchers conclude that “Whatever our basic level of violence, the empirical evidence from ecological, case-control, and other studies indicate that readily accessible firearms - by making killing easy, efficient, and somewhat impersonal - increase the lethality of violence” (p. 5).

U.S. suicide rates overall were 30 percent lower than the other countries, but the U.S. firearm suicide rate was 5.8 times higher. The researchers concluded based on existing research on U.S. gun suicides, “…it is probable that the United States would have an even lower rate of suicide relative to these other countries if firearms were not so readily available.”

The U.S. unintentional firearm death rate was 5.2 times higher than that of the other high-income countries combined.

Other key statistics included:

• For 15-year olds to 24-year olds, firearm homicide rates in the United States were 42.7 times higher than in the other countries.
• For U.S. males, firearm homicide rates were 22.0 times higher, and for U.S. females, firearm homicide rates were 11.4 times higher.

How can I use it?
Use the results of this study to urge elected officials to enact common sense effective gun laws that will make it harder for dangerous people, including criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, and children, to gain access to guns. Requiring background checks for all gun sales, including those at gun shows, is an important first step, along with strengthening law enforcement's efforts to stop the illegal gun market.
Citation
Richardson, Erin G., and David Hemenway, “Homicide, Suicide, and Unintentional Firearm Fatality: Comparing the United States With Other High-Income Countries, 2003,” Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection, and Critical Care, published online ahead of print, June 2010
[1697]

[Joe234]

In 2003, there were 30,136 firearm-related deaths in the United States; 16,907 (56%) suicides, 11,920 (40%) homicides (including 347 deaths due to legal intervention/war), and 962 (3%) undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths.

CDC/National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports 1999-2003http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars

• The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.

• The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.

• The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children: 26 industrialized countries.
MMWR. 1997;46:101-105.

Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q. 1996;49:230-235

[sgreger1]

-


An excerpt from Piers Morgan Tonight

Interview with Constitutional Law Professor Lawrence Tribe

MORGAN: What happened in Colorado is a tragedy. But could stricter gun laws have prevented it? The debate that many people are having tonight across America.

Joining me now is Harvard Law's Lawrence Tribe. He's a professor of constitutional law there. Mr. Tribe, it's a debate that rages every single time there is a shooting of this nature. This is the worst shooting in terms of people who were hit by gunfire that America has ever seen.

Is this enough, now, to prompt stricter gun control? And would stricter gun control have made a difference in this case?

PROF. LAWRENCE TRIBE, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: First of all, I want to express my grief and my deep condolences for the victims. I think gun control is overdue. The Second Amendment does protect the rights of people to possess weapons for self-defense in the home. That's what the Supreme Court said.

But it certainly does not protect the right to buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the Internet or to buy four guns, including automatic and semiautomatic weapons, in a short period of time. There's no reason in the Constitution why we as a civilized society couldn't get our hands around a problem like that.

The reason is the National Rifle Association and all of the people who, frankly, make a living out of restricting the political possibility of gun control. We have to do something about it. I don't know how many killings, how much slaughters it's going to take before the nation wakes up to the need to address the problem.

I think we fool ourselves if we say better and stricter gun control would necessarily solve the problem. There are all kinds of things that we need to do. We may need to do things about the exits at movie theaters, so that if they are opened, there's an alarm that goes off if they are not immediately shut. We may need to do something about our educational system. We need to do something about the culture of violence.

But I think this is a time for the country to come together. And it's certainly not a time for us to divide over the question of whether we can impose reasonable controls on ammunition. I think everyone agrees that the Constitution permits that. It's simply our political system that has failed to act adequately.

MORGAN: Professor Tribe, very eloquently put. Thank you very much for joining me.

TRIBE: Thank you, Piers.

Yaaaawwwwn.

Here's some data from HARVARD, regarding gun crime:

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE? (Protip: No)

And it's certainly not a time for us to divide over the question of whether we can impose reasonable controls on ammunition. I think everyone agrees that the Constitution permits that

So you would truly give up freedom in order to maintain the illusion of safety? And the constitution does not agree with that. Which is why the supreme court has repeatedly ruled that this man is a whacko lunatic. They do not agree with his assertions.

Be wary, ctiziens, lest you give up freedom because 1 out of 300 million people did something stupid. Snus kills more people each year than this man, riding a bike to work causes more deaths as well. Do not allow the corporate masters of America take your freedom for such a small price. Do not be fooled.

[sgreger1]

thanks for the label

I stereotyped them on their wearing powered wigs. I respect the
founding fathers. The point I was getting at is that they are not
infallible. Sound believe anything they wrote is sacred and ordained
by God.

They are hardly infallible. Hell, by today's standards they were all terrible people. I could care less about the founding fathers, though they were a product of their time like we all are. I merely note that the right to protect one's self is a human right, and does not even need inclusion into the bill of rights. I, as a human being, am entitled to protect myself, and any limit government puts on that in the name of "saving us from ourselves" is just tyranny wrapped in a warm legislative blanket meant to make the masses feel secure.