Is it tru that......

[sgreger1]

It looks simple to me but I am.
You wanna donate? Donate. You don't? Don't.
Why the heck does snuson have to analyse every minutae of everything thus turning something that had obviously good intentions into a clusterf***.
It could only happen on the internet.
Precious is a big boy. If he's easily pressured into losing what little cash he has he really shouldn't be allowed out without a nurse.
I don't donate because I don't have the cash.
I would never doubt PPs integrity. Any retard that's known PP for any length of time could figure he's the real deal. If not....get off the internet now before youre accidentally groomed for some grim gay basement sex ring.

Yah I certainly don't doubt PP's integrity. My point though is that Blue shouldn't be banned for saying what he said. I agree that if you don't like a thread than just stay out of it, but not sure about moving posts around so that we have certain threads where negative comments aren't allowed and will be deleted. It's not good practice.

[Snusdog]

Nah I have to call bullshit on this whole affair. Keep in mind that I did participate in the original thread by making a $50 donation, so it's not that I don't agree with the fundraising elements, but we have to respect that there are members here who don't like seeing the "patriotic" thing used so often.

First of all, I don't mind people posting threads asking for money because, last I recall, we kind have an unspoken policy of you can post about whatever you want as long as it's in the appropriate section of the forum. Him posting it wasn't the issue. What Blue, Precious007, and I were complaining about was that it appeared as though PP was playing the whole "OH MAYBE YOU AREN'T PATRIOTIC ENOUGH IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DONATE" routine on Precious. Precious, who is not rich (though intelligent! Check my siggy!), did offer to donate eventually. Then he realized that this was more of a givaway to someone who could easily just order it themselves, and was upset by it. Blue then chimend in and called PP out for getting Precious to donate via the "you aren't patriotic enough" route, as he felt moderators should not be pressuring people to donate money (and noted that it is happening more often).

Precious got a refund, but then PP wanted everyone to not post anything negative in the donation thread because the soldier receiving the donation may see it. Blue said he didn't give a **** and that he should be able to voice his grievances openly wherever he pleases. I agree with him completely. Just like PP is free to start threads asking for money whenever he wants, Blue is free to call things out as he sees them.

So after the threads were split, blue really started spamming his complaints in the new thread and the orriginal donation thread. His comments were moved because, again, PP didn't want his thread to have anything negative on it. I don't think this is right personally, because I don't get to decide if I want negative things said on my threads or not. Imagine if I posted a thread about "**** hitler Obama" and then told anyone who didn't say anything nice that they should have their posts moved to their own thread (and then I forceably moved them there).


I understand the intention here of not wanting a tainted donation thread, but I also understand that Blue had (what I feel was) a legitimate gripe, and now he has been put on a time-out by the mods which I think is completely f@cked personally. He didn't break any rules other than being angry and protesting a mod. Cummon guys we've all been down this road before.

Let blue back in and try addressing his concerns instead of just telling him to shut up.

Before being banned today, he legitimately asked PP when the winner would be announced. PP said in about a week he would decide the winner. Well it's been almost 2 weeks and no winner has been chosen, so BB was calling him out on it and asking when the winner would be named. Instead of a response, he got banned.


Cut it out guys, take him off time-out and let him speak his piece. **** what other people from outside the community think. Maybe they agree with him too, maybe the soldier would have been like "damn, I don't know why my mom went to tobacco forums to solicit people to buy me snus, I can pay for it myself". Which is I think what BB and Precious007's original gripes were. It wasn't a donation for someone in need, but rather hooking up someone with some free shit who likely makes more money than you.

Sgreger

That is actually a very fair take on the whole thing and one that I personally don't have much to disagree with.

The only additions I would make is this

1) with the exception of when the contest winnings would be decided (which was a new complaint) I feel like all the old complaints were voiced and addressed.................I may be wrong.......but the new thread was started only after it seemed everyone was on the same page (not in agreement....but at least in understanding)

2) I also agree that the forum is to be open in its discussion........but giving a gift of appreciation is a bit different than a random discussion of politics............thus while all things may be said not all things are appropriate to be said everywhere...............I was fine with keeping the gift thread clean...........AS LONG AS equal space was given for dissent...............
after the President's state of the union address the minority whip is always given time for rebuttal.....but each side speaks in turn and each side respects the other.....I have no problem from time to time in special cases asking for equal space and equal respect from two opposing views....and Sgreger.....I think this is our main disagreement in what seems to be an otherwise very close reading of the situation…………..I think at times equal but separate space is proper……you seem to hold that only same space is proper at all times…….regardless of which one of our ideologies others agree with……neither ideology should be seen as insidious

3) Finally, do I think there was a bit of overreaction on both sides............yes..........were both sides frustrated.........yes……....with reason………....yes...............was that frustration necessary...........no............simple respect would have avoided all of this

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

Yah I certainly don't doubt PP's integrity. My point though is that Blue shouldn't be banned for saying what he said. I agree that if you don't like a thread than just stay out of it, but not sure about moving posts around so that we have certain threads where negative comments aren't allowed and will be deleted. It's not good practice.

This part will like Walen

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

Sgreger

That is actually a very fair take on the whole thing and one that I personally don't have much to disagree with.

The only additions I would make is this

1) with the exception of when the contest winnings would be decided (which was a new complaint) I feel like all the old complaints were voiced and addressed.................I may be wrong.......but the new thread was started only after it seemed everyone was on the same page (not in agreement....but at least in understanding)

2) I also agree that the forum is to be open in its discussion........but giving a gift of appreciation is a bit different than a random discussion of politics............thus while all things may be said not all things are appropriate to be said everywhere...............I was fine with keeping the gift thread clean...........AS LONG AS equal space was given for dissent...............
after the President's state of the union address the minority whip is always given time for rebuttal.....but each side speaks in turn and each side respects the other.....I have no problem from time to time in special cases asking for equal space and equal respect from two opposing views....and Sgreger.....I think this is our main disagreement in what seems to be an otherwise very close reading of the situation…………..I think at times equal but separate space is proper……you seem to hold that only same space is proper at all times…….regardless of which one of our ideologies others agree with……neither ideology should be seen as insidious

3) Finally, do I think there was a bit of overreaction on both sides............yes..........were both sides frustrated.........yes……....with reason………....yes...............was that frustration necessary...........no............simple respect would have avoided all of this

Some times I feel like I talk with you mouth

[sgreger1]

Sgreger

That is actually a very fair take on the whole thing and one that I personally don't have much to disagree with.

The only additions I would make is this

1) with the exception of when the contest winnings would be decided (which was a new complaint) I feel like all the old complaints were voiced and addressed.................I may be wrong.......but the new thread was started only after it seemed everyone was on the same page (not in agreement....but at least in understanding)

2) I also agree that the forum is to be open in its discussion........but giving a gift of appreciation is a bit different than a random discussion of politics............thus while all things may be said not all things are appropriate to be said everywhere...............I was fine with keeping the gift thread clean...........AS LONG AS equal space was given for dissent...............
after the President's state of the union address the minority whip is always given time for rebuttal.....but each side speaks in turn and each side respects the other.....I have no problem from time to time in special cases asking for equal space and equal respect from two opposing views....and Sgreger.....I think this is our main disagreement in what seems to be an otherwise very close reading of the situation…………..I think at times equal but separate space is proper……you seem to hold that only same space is proper at all times…….regardless of which one of our ideologies others agree with……neither ideology should be seen as insidious

3) Finally, do I think there was a bit of overreaction on both sides............yes..........were both sides frustrated.........yes……....with reason………....yes...............was that frustration necessary...........no............simple respect would have avoided all of this

I don't really care that they split threads. I guess if we have to fake our image to appease some unknown outsiders than that is cool. To me it is of no consequence either way, which is why I voted that it be split in the original thread myself. I know Big Blue was obviously very angry about something that wasn't really much to be upset about, but I think we gotta let him be angry if he wants. He seems to be a little upset lately and that's been showing on the forums, but we all go through periods like that so I can't blame him. Don't ban him though dude, he's been around long enough to where we know he's not trolling, he's just being himself and very loudly voicing his opinion. If you want to keep the original donations thread sterilized of anything negative, than it is on the mods to move his posts back over to the "free speech zone" you have established. Banning him seems unecessary.

[whalen]

Well said...............Kudos........... There has been some warning signs. Modern living.

[Crow]

this can will have to last a few days or else I will be forced to purchase General at the tobacco store! Blech. Anyway good to see you brother.

Why don't you just make the drive out to Fife and stock up? It's only half an hour away, and they've got plenty of Oden's to go around (at a very reasonable price)!

[Frosted]

I understand that BB is not here to defend himself but soon will and seeing that its been brought up......
BB always claims that he just speaks his mind.
Personally Ive never been able to tell if he is just doing that or actually trolling.
You say he's just been in a bad mood sgreger....so how long do we have to tolerate that for? I've been at the butt end of his bad moods on many occasions. He's in no doubt how I feel about that and about him personally.

I don't know any forums that tolerate posting the same post over and over. It's considered trolling.

I'm obviously not going to win a popularity contest with my views. You've made yours so I've made mine.

[sgreger1]

I understand that BB is not here to defend himself but soon will and seeing that its been brought up......
BB always claims that he just speaks his mind.
Personally Ive never been able to tell if he is just doing that or actually trolling.
You say he's just been in a bad mood sgreger....so how long do we have to tolerate that for? I've been at the butt end of his bad moods on many occasions. He's in no doubt how I feel about that and about him personally.

I don't know any forums that tolerate posting the same post over and over. It's considered trolling.

I'm obviously not going to win a popularity contest with my views. You've made yours so I've made mine.

I agree with you that posting over and over is one thing that forums don't tolerate, but he felt he wasn't being heard (probably because his posts were being moved to the "free speech zones" established by the mods). Then he was banned for posting his complaints in the relevent thread, but apparently that was not authorized so they moved his comments back to the newer thread and banned him temporarily.

I know it's temporary and all, and I know he shouldn't have been spamming the same comment about PP, especially since everyone agrees that PP is an upstanding member of the community, but I just hope his ban is lifted soon so we can get over this.


I know you and blue don't get along Frosted, but if this had been you I would be arguing in your favor as well. Banning long standing members is something that should be reserved for serious offenders, not someone who probably drank a little too much this morning and bitched at the mods.

I'm just saying, we've all been around here for a while, and if one day Frosted/Extreme decides to go on a rant I don't think he should be banned.

[Frosted]

I don't think a temporary banning is a big deal in the slightest. A permanent one is and those are the ones that really need very careful consideration.
If it was me going on a rant (it has been known) drunken or whatever and I woke up the next day to a temporary ban, Id look over my posts, probably cringe a little and take the ban on the chin.

[sgreger1]

If it was me going on a rant (it has been known) drunken or whatever and I woke up the next day to a temporary ban, Id look over my posts, probably cringe a little and take the ban on the chin.

But admittedly that is because you love taking things on the chin in general.

Edit: You love having temporary bans in and around your mouth too huh?

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

Why don't you just make the drive out to Fife and stock up? It's only half an hour away, and they've got plenty of Oden's to go around (at a very reasonable price)!

??? : ) the issue is solved

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

I understand that BB is not here to defend himself but soon will and seeing that its been brought up......
BB always claims that he just speaks his mind.
Personally Ive never been able to tell if he is just doing that or actually trolling.
You say he's just been in a bad mood sgreger....so how long do we have to tolerate that for? I've been at the butt end of his bad moods on many occasions. He's in no doubt how I feel about that and about him personally.

I don't know any forums that tolerate posting the same post over and over. It's considered trolling.

I'm obviously not going to win a popularity contest with my views. You've made yours so I've made mine.

I double this , Tusche

[GoVegan]

Just my 2 cents worth. Blue should not be banned. This forum is not the same without him. Thanks for letting me speak my piece.

[truthwolf1]

I dont know what to say other then it will start feeling like walking on eggshells here if people are getting banned so quickly. Why cant member's have a fight once in awhile or at least get a warning like in the real world first? Re-posting a few paragraphs to get a reaction is not like throwing out racist or terroristic threats!!!

just wow!