The US-born radical Islamist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki has been killed in Yemen

**sgreger1** · 30-09-11, 06:57 PM

First of all, this guy was guilty as sin in my opinion, BUT, this is a sad, shameful day in America from a civil-liberties perspective.

This cleric advocated terrorism and ran some publications that advocated for Jihad against the united states. Several of the terrorist attacks (or attempts) are people who were following his message. But, with that in mind, this man is not guilty of any crime as supreme court precedent is on his side. Brandenburg vs.. Ohio protects his speech, and re-affirms his right to say what he wants under the first amendment, including when that speech could potentially incite violence at some later date.

The problem here is that Obama has set a dangerous precedent that is a step in the wrong direction, as the executive is now making summary judgments against American citizens without trial or due process, or so much as even presenting the evidence to the court and getting a warrant or anything. All we know is that they say they have evidence against him, but they have alleviated themselves of the burden of having to provide this evidence to the court to prove that he was guilty of these crimes.

Next, a right wing terrorist will blow something up and say it was because he listened to Glenn Beck, and Glenn Beck will be executed for inciting terrorism without a trial. This is the world we will live in if we allow this to continue. In my opinion this man was guilty and deserved to die as he was a traitor to the United States, but every dog must have his day and per the constitution every American citizen must have his trial before a judgment is made.

Do not give up civil liberties in exchange for the illusion of safety, what happened to this man is a strike against us all as American citizens, and by condoning these actions we are only giving the administration another nail to thrust into our future coffins.

Just a quick reminder:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

LA times, "In time, the election of Barack Obama may stand as one of the single most devastating events in our history for civil liberties."

**truthwolf1** · 30-09-11, 07:47 PM

The chatter is this guy was on the CIA payroll and also had lunch at the Pentagon shortly after 911 but then turned bad for political convenience.

In my opinion just continues the questionable story of al-CIAda. Don't know what to believe anymore to be honest but do know that our civil liberties are vanishing before our eyes because of one bad day. We lose more people from car accidents and local/illegal criminals yet all this fuss over catching some boogeyman.

**sgreger1** · 30-09-11, 08:48 PM

Joe, don't hit and run me baby, stay for breakfast and talk!

Where do you stand on this? Was this a strong move on Obama's point, kicking ass and taking names? Is this another trophy on the victory shelf, the fact that he got Bin Laden and Awlaki? Or is this the case of a corrupt administration creeping towards fascism and diregarding the constitution. In the 60's, would you as a protester of the war believe this was a good thing or an injustice?

If this man would have turned himself in, he would have been sent to Gitmo (or worse) and tortured, does a man in his position have any other choice than to join the other side? His free speech was limited back home in the US, so he sought refuge with those whom he saw eye to eye with, but the US sent a hit team to blow him up in a country whom we are not at war with, and his execution was ordered by the commander-in-chief without having to even charge him with a crime. What do you think about all of this? I am genuinely curious.

This is traditional power-creep. We allowed the patriot act because it was "only used on the bad guys", but they only use the bad guys as an excuse, then quickly turn it back stateside.

Fact: Only 3 of the 763 uses of the Patriot Act for fiscal year 2008 involved terrorism cases, the other 65% were used against domestic drug users.

So they sell us that these are special powers they need to snoop on the bad guy terrorists to keep us safe, and end up using it stateside 65% of the time on minor offenses that do not warrant such a blatant violation of civil liberties.

Whether this guy was a bad guy or not is irrelevant, if we allow them to execute him in yemen today than we have allowed them to fly the drones in texas tomorrow.

**wa3zrm** · 30-09-11, 08:56 PM

Ron Paul Condemns Death of al-Awlaki; "I Don't Think that's a Good Way to Deal with our Problems"

Congressman Ron Paul is condemning the death of terrorist Anwar al-Awalaki, calling his death an "assassination." Here is a short transcript of an exchange that he had with a reporter who was asking how he felt about the news:
Reporter- Over night, our time, Anwar al-Awalaki was killed... What do you think about that? Is that a victory for President Obama?
Congressman Paul- Let's hope not. I don't think that's a good way to deal with our problems. He's born here. Awalaki was born here. He's an American citizen. He was never tried or charged for any crimes. Nobody knows if he ever killed anybody. We know that he might have been associated with the, uh, underwear bomber. But if the American people accept this blindly and casually, we now have an accepted practice of the President assassinating people who he thinks are bad guys. I think it's sad....
Reporter- Does that only apply to American citizens? I mean, would you say the same thing about bin Laden?
Congressman Paul- Not exactly. You know, because he was involved with, you know, 9/11...

(Excerpt) Read more at punditpress.com ...

**Joe234** · 30-09-11, 10:05 PM

He was a punk who deserved it. I have neen following this former John of prostitutes.

Ron Paul has become a joke. He's too much of an absolutist.

**Bigblue1** · 30-09-11, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Joe234

He was a punk who deserved it. I have neen following this former John of prostitutes.

Well at least it sets a precedent for the next president who isn't a fan of Bill ayers to assassinate him. You know Bill the guy who did conduct terrorist Bombings on US soil, evaded the authorities, and was complicit in a couple deaths......... Oh did I forget to mention one of Obama's heroes.....

**Joe234** · 01-10-11, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Bigblue1

Well at least it sets a precedent for the next president who isn't a fan of Bill ayers to assassinate him. You know Bill the guy who did conduct terrorist Bombings on US soil, evaded the authorities, and was complicit in a couple deaths......... Oh did I forget to mention one of Obama's heroes.....

Yea. I remember. One of the guys who put his ass on the line to
stop a war that claimed over 50,000 American lives. Many draftees.
He was never called a terrorist back in the day. That's a FOX News label.

You know, Fox News. The same outfit that doesn't call suicide bombers,
"suicide bombers." Fox refuses to call them what they are. Fox calls them
" homicide bombers." Some weird policy they have. Homicide bomber
does not indicate the bomber took his own life. I wonder if Fox refuses
to use the word " kamikaze" too?

**Bigblue1** · 01-10-11, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by Joe234

Yea. I remember. One of the guys who put his ass on the line to
stop a war that claimed over 50,000 American lives. Many draftees.
He was never called a terrorist back in the day. That's a FOX News label.

Man, I could give 2 shits about Bill Ayers to tell you the truth. Just trying to make the same point as sgreger. If they can do this to a so called "terrorist" who again was having lunch at the pentagon shortly after the 9/11 attacks. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/20...ntagon-months/ They can do it to anybody just like the patriot act that i'm sure you were admonishing until your "guy" decided it was good for the country. Anyways Joe it's just a bit disingenuous of you to support one groups constitutional rights but cave on others. You just don't seem to get the left- right thing yet. I see by your support of Ratigan as he is calling out both sides you are starting to wake up. Truth be told Ratigan is just a left of Center Glen Beck. I know it is hard to let go of long hard entrenched beliefs, The sooner you realize that neither side is behind you the more empowered you will feel. And that these Becks and Ratigans are just watered down Alex Jones rip offs. Oh and the only reason I use a Fox Link is that other people who read this will say it must be factual if it was on mainstream media. thing is that article was probably over 8 years older then the first time Alex dug that info out......

**lxskllr** · 01-10-11, 02:34 AM

For another POV that doesn't involve politics... I wonder how much that cost. Same with OBL. I bet we spent millions(billions? trillions? hard to say. Depends on how you do the accounting) to assassinate an old man. That's like keying someones car when they knock your tray over at lunch. Did they kill his money too? That's what really matters. He had some organizational mojo, but it was the money that really got results, and AFAIK, it's still out there.

**Joe234** · 01-10-11, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by Bigblue1

Man, I could give 2 shits about Bill Ayers to tell you the truth. Just trying to make the same point as sgreger. If they can do this to a so called "terrorist" who again was having lunch at the pentagon shortly after the 9/11 attacks. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/20...ntagon-months/ They can do it to anybody just like the patriot act that i'm sure you were admonishing until your "guy" decided it was good for the country. Anyways Joe it's just a bit disingenuous of you to support one groups constitutional rights but cave on others. You just don't seem to get the left- right thing yet. I see by your support of Ratigan as he is calling out both sides you are starting to wake up. Truth be told Ratigan is just a left of Center Glen Beck. I know it is hard to let go of long hard entrenched beliefs, The sooner you realize that neither side is behind you the more empowered you will feel. And that these Becks and Ratigans are just watered down Alex Jones rip offs. Oh and the only reason I use a Fox Link is that other people who read this will say it must be factual if it was on mainstream media. thing is that article was probably over 8 years older then the first time Alex dug that info out......

Here's what one militia has to say:

RON PAUL COMMITS POLITICAL SUICIDE

Carl F. Worden
Liaison Officer Southern Oregon Militia
September 30, 2011

As my readers all know, I have been a loyal and strong supporter of Ron Paul, but Paul disappointed a whole bunch of us when he voted to end, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", and now he's all over the major networks telling everybody the U.S. should not have killed Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen because he is an American citizen and was due all the rights of a citizen who is charged with a crime.

Ron Paul is dead wrong, and he is now politically dead as well. I suspect Herman Cain will be the candidate who will most benefit from Paul's self-inflicted political suicide, but we'll see.

The fact is that Anwar al-Awlaki went to Yemen to wage a terror/guerrilla war against the United States in concert with al Qaeda, and that makes him a traitor in addition to being an international terrorist. War involves killing, and we don't put enemy soldiers on trial before we kill them on the battlefield. In a guerilla war environment, the battlefield is seldom defined for long -- if at all. The enemy combatants usually hide among the general population and if you have a chance to kill one without killing a whole bunch of innocent civilians in the process, it's a major plus. In this case, al-Awlaki and another turncoat American were targeted in a surgical strike that didn't kill anyone but the enemy combatant/traitors and their drivers as they were in transit, and no-doubt plotting their next attack on our soil.

I have the same philosophy about rattlesnakes. I do not hate the rattlesnake, for he is also God's creation and he is what he is, but if I encounter a rattlesnake in my path of life, I will not hesitate to kill him, because even though the rattlesnake is one of God's creatures and cannot help what he is, a rattlesnake is still a rattlesnake -- and a danger to me.

I don't care how or why al Awlaki came to hate his own country. All I know is if he had the chance, he'd kill me, my wife and any other American if given the opportunity, just as a rattlesnake can be counted on to strike.

Ron Paul got this one all wrong, and he has officially destroyed any chance of winning nomination.

Carl F. Worden
Liaison Officer Southern Oregon Militia

**Bigblue1** · 01-10-11, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by lxskllr

For another POV that doesn't involve politics... I wonder how much that cost. Same with OBL. I bet we spent millions(billions? trillions? hard to say. Depends on how you do the accounting) to assassinate an old man. That's like keying someones car when they knock your tray over at lunch. Did they kill his money too? That's what really matters. He had some organizational mojo, but it was the money that really got results, and AFAIK, it's still out there.

You know that's a great point LX, but it's not. It's not because our so called government has no accountability. Whether their funding terrorists in afghanistan or now Lybia whilst their supposedly killing other terrorists in the name of freedom. Or their bailing out Banks which includes many banks that have no tie here in America with taxpayer money. Or their waging unneeded wars that are facilitated by the last two statements. Or they are running drugs into this country while they spend billions of dollars on an ineffectual "war" on drugs. While they allow major corporations run rampant and laterally to do what they want in the name of Globalization. ie NAFTA and GATT anybody in this country who just assume things got shitty on accident has blinders on. It all doesn't matter till the American Populace wakes up and stops treating politics like a football game where you have to pick sides. I've been trying to stay out of these topics but it all just seems to get categorically worse as the days go by. I mean look at the new "news" from today Bank of America also known as skank of America is introducing new fees to help them cope with losses . This is after those that pay those fees and Pay the taxes bailed the douche bags out. And the only commentary that the so called press has to say about it. "expect the others to follow. You mean Shitty bank and the ever popular JP morgan chase. I'm sorry but it's gotten to a point where every American needs to pull their cards. Literally. Everyone needs to close their accounts and stop using these assholes. that means credit/debit/checking/savings. Forget about it. If that happened for a week we would see some real terrorism........

**Bigblue1** · 01-10-11, 03:49 AM

Originally posted by Joe234

Here's what one militia has to say:

RON PAUL COMMITS POLITICAL SUICIDE

Like I give a shit what that guy says. To quote The Dude "Yeah well, that's just like his opinion man." Why don't you ever dispute the facts that I put up, you just attack the sources with some BS.
I am truly trying to help here Joe not just fight.......... Oh and I'm pretty sure RP wants nothing to do with scatterbrained fringe militia people. If he did he wouldn't bother running for president, He'd just go around waving an AK or something. Also Know Joe their are trolls all over the internet that try to make others look bad with duplicitous intentions....

**sgreger1** · 01-10-11, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by Joe234

Here's what one militia has to say:

As my readers all know, I have been a loyal and strong supporter of Ron Paul, but Paul disappointed a whole bunch of us when he voted to end, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", and now he's all over the major networks telling everybody the U.S. should not have killed Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen because he is an American citizen and was due all the rights of a citizen who is charged with a crime.

Carl F. Worden
Liaison Officer Southern Oregon Militia

Luckily some idiot in the "Oregon Militia" (lolollol) is not going to decide the election or anything. You realize that you are siding with bigots like the one quoted above and against people like Ron Paul who fights for what you fought for in the 60's and who voted to end DADT.

That's the kind of man I want as leader of the free world, he stands up for the rights of all american's, even those whom we don't agree with. Ron Paul is an absolutist in that he absolutely requires freedom, and understands that sometimes with freedom comes bad things, but nothing is as bad as not being free. You can't have it both ways, it's either authoritarianism or freedom. Freedom ain't always neat and clean and wrapped up in a nice little package but it's the only way man should live.

His statements today have re-affirmed my belief that he is the man for the job. Justice for ALL Americans, even those whom we don't like. Because someday, you may wind up in the group that people don't like, and on that day you will wish that you had voted for freedom instead of tyranny.

The US-born radical Islamist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki has been killed in Yemen

The US-born radical Islamist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki has been killed in Yemen

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