Court Ruling: Gov does not have to follow any rules or show up to court

[sgreger1]

It's over, the courts keep ruling in favor of the gov, I have no faith left in the system.

Remember when Abu Gharib and all that stuff broke? . After America learned that we had secret detention facilities where people were being tortured, the CIA ordered that any and all videos or evidence of interrogations be immediately destroyed so no one would ever have to go to jail for this.

2 years later, America learned that the CIA had done this (destroyed any evidence), and wanted blood. Well, the CIA chose their fallguy, his name was Jose Rodriguez, and it looks like he won't be falling that far. He admitted that he ordered the evidence to be destroyed, and now the court has said that they are ruling in favor of the CIA and that he is a patriot and a hero for protecting our national security... by destroying evidence of the US torture policies.

Despite a court order forbidding the destruction of evidence, the CIA deleted all the videos and burned all the files that could be used to jail anyone who ordered torture in secret prisons, for the reason that it may hurt our national security (of course). Because names of interrogators may be outted in trials, and that the public may learn of it and that it may hurt public sentiment towards the wars in the middle east. Read that again, the evidence was destroyed: So torturers would not get in trouble, and to push support the war in the middle east.


The court has upheld, that the Gov can do whatever it wants, never go to trial even when they are blatantly guilty, and that they do not have to follow court orders or any other rules for that matter. They can kidnap you, imprison you for 10 years, torture you, and not only will there be no trial, but they will admit to destroying all of the evidence and the courts will be okay with that.


http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/11...justice-looks/


Alex Jones and them were right, we live in a police state. Right now the rulers have just decided to use their powers selectively, but the precedent is set: The gov does not have to answer to the courts, and the citizens have no means of protection of any kind against the government, regardless of how horrific the action on the part of the government.

[PipenSnus]

Although I don't see eye to eye with Alex Jones on many things, on Police State AmeriKKKa we are in complete accord.

But it's not really news. Those of us who have been part of the counterculture knew we were living in a police state way back in the '60's and '70's. It's just that most Americans were asleep at the wheel. Many still are.

[NonServiam]

I saw a movie and watched a show recently which has me very paranoid of the gov't. Even more than usual! The movie came out earlier this year, it's called The Crazies. It's about a gov't plane carrying chemical warfare that crashes into a small town's water supply. The town people become murderous once exposed and the military converges to shut down entrance/exit and communication to the town. They then begin rounded up the townsfolk for systematic extermination. It was all very plausible.

The other show I watched just last night. Frontline had a special on the "Norfolk 4". Long story short, upwards of 7 men are coerced into false confessions of a gang rape/murder. Four of the men are convicted and after years in prison, the state attorney general only offers them a coniditional pardon (not exhonerated) despite the true killer confessing and being linked to the DNA evidence. Scary stuff.

http://www.norfolkfour.com/

West Memphis 3 is another one. More of a modern day witch hunt.

http://www.wm3.org/

[sgreger1]

Although I don't see eye to eye with Alex Jones on many things, on Police State AmeriKKKa we are in complete accord.

But it's not really news. Those of us who have been part of the counterculture knew we were living in a police state way back in the '60's and '70's. It's just that most Americans were asleep at the wheel. Many still are.

I'm the same way with Alex Jones, I don't see him eye to eye ona lot of things,a nd I think he exadurates sometimes, but his general theory on us living in a police state is true. While the government doesn't shut off our internet, round people up, kill our citizens in the night for being dissidents etc, they have signed in the laws and set up the system allowing them to do so at their leisure. They just aren't showing their full hand. Someday some big event will happen and it'll look like Iran around here, and everyone will say "By what decree are they allowed to do this to us!" and they will be able to cite the laws that have slowly been passed over the past 50 years.

So far we know they can order any american to be killed by labeling them a terrorist.
We know they can imprison people indefinately and not have to go to court to explain their actions
We know they can torture you and not have to go to court to explain their actions
And we know they can destroy evidence in a trial and the court will uphold that action as valid, even if said court had previousely ordered them to not destroy it.

These are all very dangerous things, and take away the very structure that holds a free society together. When the courts have no power, evil men will not be brought to justice.

[WickedKitchen]

We'll need to be even more scared when/if they begin to start rounding up all of the firearms in US.

I hope not to see the "big event" but it's likely to happen sooner rather than later. I have no evidence for this, it's just a feeling. I also don't think that harsh interrogation techniques and torture are synonymous. I just looked up the official definition of torture:
tor·ture


–noun 1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

2. a method of inflicting such pain.

3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.

4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.

5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.


–verb (used with object) 6. to subject to torture.

7. to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.

8. to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!

9. to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.

10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).




Unfortunately it is synonymous with extracting information. To me they are different. Punishment, revenge, and cruelty are torture. There is a reason that must have been proven effective at some point for the purpose of extracting information. I cannot site anything and I'd surmise there are people that do give false information...especially now 'cos they know that they won't be actually killed. Maybe for that reason it can be called torture. If they were scared that we would truly kill them it might be more effective.

Think about it this way. If we armed the border guards and instructed them to shoot on site there would be backlash. Would it be outrageous, yes. Would it be unreasonable, maybe...maybe not. I would bet anything that in a short period of time the illegal border crossing would would drop for less people will be willing to take the risk. Hell, if you accidentally hike into some countries you can be detained w/o question. Here...ha...come on over and get yourself to the hospital please. We'll take care of you...for the good of the community...and the children.

[truthwolf1]

Here...ha...come on over and get yourself to the hospital please. We'll take care of you...for the good of the community...and the children.

This is why I totally agree with Alex, that the whole "terror war" is a scam on our own people for control.

[sgreger1]

We'll need to be even more scared when/if they begin to start rounding up all of the firearms in US.

I hope not to see the "big event" but it's likely to happen sooner rather than later. I have no evidence for this, it's just a feeling. I also don't think that harsh interrogation techniques and torture are synonymous. I just looked up the official definition of torture:
tor·ture


–noun 1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

2. a method of inflicting such pain.

3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.

4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.

5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.


–verb (used with object) 6. to subject to torture.

7. to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.

8. to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!

9. to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.

10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).




Unfortunately it is synonymous with extracting information. To me they are different. Punishment, revenge, and cruelty are torture. There is a reason that must have been proven effective at some point for the purpose of extracting information. I cannot site anything and I'd surmise there are people that do give false information...especially now 'cos they know that they won't be actually killed. Maybe for that reason it can be called torture. If they were scared that we would truly kill them it might be more effective.

Think about it this way. If we armed the border guards and instructed them to shoot on site there would be backlash. Would it be outrageous, yes. Would it be unreasonable, maybe...maybe not. I would bet anything that in a short period of time the illegal border crossing would would drop for less people will be willing to take the risk. Hell, if you accidentally hike into some countries you can be detained w/o question. Here...ha...come on over and get yourself to the hospital please. We'll take care of you...for the good of the community...and the children.

We'll need to be even more scared when/if they begin to start rounding up all of the firearms in US.

You mean like they did during Katrina in 06?

Really, all they have to do is pass enough gun legislation to the point where it is all but completely illegal. They could take 90% of the guns off the streets without ever doing a mass roundup.

First step is to intimidate and create a culture that is anti-gun, like in california.

Next step is to make fines and prison terms so ludicrous that no one bothers with it, like they have also done here in CA. If I shoot a criminal in my house, I may go to jail for life or be sued.

Pretty soon, only a few people have guns, and a few people pose no threat. An infantry squad could easily take out 500 men with pistols and the state mandated 10 round magazines, which by decree of the legislature must be at all times unloaded and with amunition stored seperate from the pistol. The weapons which are legal are all but useless in defending against an armed military. They've already taken all the guns...



Torture:

People do not understand why guantanimo bay exists, or why we tortured those 3 people. This instills fear and it's mere existence allows for easy extraction of information. Coming first hand from someone I was stationed with that was an interrogator, of all the thousands of people interrogated, almost none of them are ever tortured. Why you ask? Because the other 997 guys were afraid of being tortured, and heard on the news that the US is an imperial monster that will detain you indefinately and waterboard you for breakfast lunch and dinner. A low level interrogator can use guantanamo's existance as leverage in his quest to extract reliable information.

"Hey Mahmoud, we understand you are poor and are fighting mainly to feed your family. Just like a soldier. I can understand that, i'm a soldier too. I fight for money, not because I necessarily believe in the "cause" that I am fighting for. So tell me Mahmoud, can we work out a deal here and maybe help both of us, because if not I am going to have to escalate this... and you know what happens to people when they get to gitmo. I'm a nice guy Mahmoud, and I uderstand your reasons for being in this fight, but if I don't get some thing, ANYTHING, from you in regards to intel, something I can bring to the boss, well.. the people I will have to send you will not be as willing to deal. They lock people up for 10 years and the laws allow you no trial, and whatever happens behind closed doors never sees the light of day."

^^^^ 9 times out of 10 this will yield some kind of information which can then be verified, and the prisoner can be released. Despite what they say on the news, most insurgents are not fighting for some great cause or to bring a new caliphate to the world in the name of Allah. They are fighting for money just like your sons and daughters in Iraq, only marginally tied to the cause on a personal level. They are easy to break, but you must make them question how much they are willing to go through to keep a secret.