Nic Content. Dip vs Snus.

[chadizzy1]

I've got someone who asked me this today and I didn't have an answer.

What's the nic content in a can of dip, or say a pinch?
Is there more in snus than in dip?

[justintempler]

Check out Dr. Brad Radu's site. Here's a starting point for you.

http://smokersonly.org/product_facts...try_taboo.html

[Liandri]

http://www.ussmokeless.com/en/cms/Pr...d/default.aspx

EDIT: Also some whizzo figured a hunka portion of it all in this

http://www.smpost.net/modules/newbb/...C&type=&mode=0

[Snusdog]

Once again JT, great find. Daily I am impressed by your skills.

As far as the chart/article. I’m not sure how to compare it with the info released on snus. That said- JT I seem to remember this long ass in depth study on smokeless tobacco. It ran the numbers on Dip, chew, snuff, and snus. I seem to remember it using a dry weight measure for all 4. It was on snuffhouse.com and I believe it was in a thread talking about nic levels in snuff (possible American Snuff). I’ll try to find it at some point but you might have better luck. Its been about a month or two since I read it.

That said, even if we do find the report, there are other factors involved- Fore example, the Ph levels will affect Nic absorption by the gums and thus produce a stronger dip/snus with potentially less nic. The point is that just plain nic levels will not tell the whole story though it is certainly a big part.

As such, I think a good place to begin, at least for now, is to go back to experience (both my own and that of other long time dippers). That is, since numbers can be made to say anything and an over simplified explanation of a complex product can be misleading at best, I think it is helpful to go back to experience with the finished product. Here we have all the factors and we have them operating as they are intended.

I dipped for well over 25 years. I have had just about every brand. My main brand was Copenhagen, then Red Seal, then Timber Wolf. In other words, I’ve had nicotine before. Here is what I can tell you:

My first snus was Knox (actually someone gave me a few portions of General but Knox was the first I bought and the first I spent any time with). For the first week using Knox I had a constant nic headache (I will still get these when using a stark).

I have shared snus with all my dipping friends. All these guys are heavy dippers. As I have written numerous times before, I have sent several to the toilet with the shits and had a couple tell me it was close to being like when they tried dip for the first time. They could really feel it.

Snus is noticeably stronger than dip. My guess is that an average snus would score 4-5% by the same rating used in the article.

That said, and I cannot say this enough, THERE IS MORE GOING ON IN DIP THAN JUST THE NICOTINE. The effect you get from dip is in large part due to the other additives they use to produce/make it. Ask any x-dipper on the forum who dipped for any amount of time and they will tell you that-

WHILE THEY COULD FEEL THE EXTRA NIC IN SNUS, THEY WERE STILL CRAVING SOMETHING IN THE DIP NOT FOUND IN SNUS.

Snus is stronger and it is a food product. Dip CANNOT say the same. END OF STORY

Edit: took the last paragraph out due to it being an unsubstantiated rant.

[Snusdog]

Liandri, Thanks for your post. According to US Tobacco Copenhagen has 11mg/g verses the 8mg/g standard of Snus. So by this account I am wrong- and not just kind of wrong, way way wrong . Possibly. It did happen once before (years ago ).

I still maintain this is only part of the story.


From Swedish Match web site

Important research results on Swedish snus:
• Less than half the amount of nicotine present in a pinch of snus is extracted during snus use.
• Only 10-20 % of the nicotine present in a pinch of snus is absorbed via the mucous membrane and reaches the systemic circulation. This means that only 1-2 mg of nicotine is absorbed into the blood from a one gram pinch containing ca 10 mg of nicotine.
• Nicotine is absorbed quite rapidly from Swedish snus.
• Studies on Swedish snus users have shown that the plasma steady-state levels of nicotine and its main metabolite, cotinine, are similar in Swedish snus users and cigarette smokers.
• Snus users and cigarette smokers, who have similar blood nicotine levels, have reported similar levels of subjective dependence on tobacco.
• The total nicotine uptake (dose) measured as the excretion of nicotine and its metabolites per 24 hours is similar in habitual snus users and cigarette smokers, i.e. 25 mg.
• In contrast to cigarette smokers, snus users do not compensate their nicotine uptake when switching to a low nicotine product. A decrease of the nicotine content of snus by 50 % results in a decrease of the nicotine uptake by about 50 %.
• An experimental cross-over study of blood plasma levels obtained after controlled snus use of four different portion-packed snus products of various weight and format, different nicotine content and different pH values showed that the nicotine intake varies between 0.4 and 1.2 mg per pinch.

Read the whole article
http://www.swedishmatch.com/en/Snus-...cotine-uptake/

[jadedcynic]

WHILE THEY COULD FEEL THE EXTRA NIC IN SNUS, THEY WERE STILL CRAVING SOMETHING IN THE DIP NOT FOUND IN SNUS.

Snus is stronger and it is a food product. Dip CANNOT say the same. END OF STORY

Yes indeed. I'm so glad I'm off of that stuff. The hit from dip was always strong for me, but it would only last about 5 minutes, while snus gradually builds to a level then slowly tapers off. Plus I felt like I had poison in my mouth (quite possibly because I did) which probably kept me from fully enjoying it. Not so with snus.

[Liandri]

I'll come to dips defense and say, only personally, that I got more of a nic hit per 30 minutes than snus, even strong versions.

but on the health aspect, my teef were hurtin' by the end of the day. lol. And like always, who knows what any american style tobacco puts in their tobacco anyways.

[justintempler]

It's two different kinds of rides.

One is like riding down the highway on your motorcyle going 60mph with the wind blowing through your hair.

The other is like going dirt biking, jumping hills and dodging mud holes.

Each has it's own thrills and you can argue all day long about which one is better. There is no winner. It all comes down to personal preference.

[SpruceSnus]

When I run out of snus, and i'm waiting for more snus to arrive in the mail, I find myself buying a can of skoal or cope to tide me over. IMO American "dip" seems super week.. I find my self using copious amounts of it at a time to get - at most - a moderate buzz..

Also, I wanted to comment on what snusdog mentioned..

"That said, and I cannot say this enough, THERE IS MORE GOING ON IN DIP THAN JUST THE NICOTINE. The effect you get from dip is in large part due to the other additives they use to produce/make it. Ask any x-dipper on the forum who dipped for any amount of time and they will tell you that-

WHILE THEY COULD FEEL THE EXTRA NIC IN SNUS, THEY WERE STILL CRAVING SOMETHING IN THE DIP NOT FOUND IN SNUS."

Yeah.. I feel different when using American "dip". I might describe it as a "chemical/junk food/preservative type of feeling (although mild). Like the feeling you might get from chasing a hot-dog with a wine cooler lol.. It might just be my imagination; who knows ..

I also noticed that I feel the reverse about the statement "THEY WERE STILL CRAVING SOMETHING IN THE DIP NOT FOUND IN SNUS". I feel a craving for something not in dip, or maybe the REMOVAL of something that IS in dip; if that makes any sense.. I guess I just don't find "dip" very satisfying.

Blablabla.. just my 2 cents. Hope it wasn't too off the specific topic.

[Liandri]

What it all boils down to is, After using snus for what 8-9 years I'm not chasing anything anymore. Just doing it out of habitual addictive routine. One of the reasons why I can't use anything other than Ettan or Grov anymore is because the novelty ran out and I'm just doing it. I'm personally not craving anything in dip other than the taste when I pick up a can. I don't feel anything different, no super natural american brainwashing nicotine delivery magic or any other extra pizzaz. And the reason why I said it hurts after use is because If I actually used an entire can of snus in a days time, I'd probably have the same kind of pain. The "two kind of rides" I can agree on to a certain degree, each have their thrills, each have their risks, and in both cases your sitting underneath a motor (But whichever one you connect to which, I'd still choose the dirtbike, lol)

Now if they made a snus that actually ACTUALLY tasted exactly like copenhagen, boom it'll be over I found my "no other can in the world will do its justice" snus. lol

[InFlames]

I dipped for many years bf switching to snus. As far as the "feeling" the comes with using either of those products for me the difference is that dip hits quicker initially. Snus comes on slower but after it's been in for 15min or there is little difference between it and dip on the effect it has. Just my personal opinion that different ph levels have more to do with why the two products feel different more so than their nic content.

Now how it feels in my lip is a different story, dip has more of a burn/sting to it than snus. Also during the years that i dipped i always had issues with canker sores and heart burn. Those two issues disappeared when i switched to snus. That is the prime reason i'll never return to dip fulltime again. I can see me maybe bumming a dip of cope on occassion just cause i like the taste and nothing in the snus world has that. The side effects from regular dip use are just something i don't want to deal with anymore.

john

[snusjus]

Dip will hit you faster, since you're supposed to use your bottom lip. There are no saliva-producing glands in your upper lip, so the "hit" takes a bit longer compared to dip.

[chadizzy1]

Dip will hit you faster, since you're supposed to use your bottom lip. There are no saliva-producing glands in your upper lip, so the "hit" takes a bit longer compared to dip.

yeah, but what if you bottom lip your snus?

[snusjus]

Dip will hit you faster, since you're supposed to use your bottom lip. There are no saliva-producing glands in your upper lip, so the "hit" takes a bit longer compared to dip.

yeah, but what if you bottom lip your snus?

You will receive the nicotine at a faster rate from any tobacco if you bottom lip it. Another variant that differentiates dip and snus is the way its cut. Long cut and fine cut dip is less dense than snus. The nicotine from dip is faster because the saliva carries the nicotine to the oral mucosa much faster. The way dip is cut also makes the nicotine hit faster, since saliva can penetrate deeper into the tobacco.

[Liandri]

Dip will hit you faster, since you're supposed to use your bottom lip. There are no saliva-producing glands in your upper lip, so the "hit" takes a bit longer compared to dip.

yeah, but what if you bottom lip your snus?

What the hell are you thinking, man? Do you want to kill us all?!?! Thats just crazy!