Copenhagen snus attempt

[mouthofthesouth]

Same here. I have some leaves curing in the closet thay were the lower leaves off a few plants. They turned yellow and brown so I hung them up. 2 of them are a beautiful light brown and have been in there about a month. Another month and I'm probably going to be meddling around with those as a test to see what kind of flavor I can expect from the rest.

Good luck to you on yours. Sounds like you are on the right track.

[squeezyjohn]

Or you could try a test batch of this years stuff and hold some back for next year. If they taste the same - that would save you considerable time the next time around!!!

i haven't used my homegrown for snus yet ... This years harvest is coming ready to try out on the unaged stuff. But I will hold most back for ageing. There's no real manual for doing this, so I'm just putting tips and tricks together and experimenting with the rest at the moment.

Best of luck with yours.

[mouthofthesouth]

Right on. I know the longer the tobacco sits the smoother. I may try a leaf or so in a few months just to get a feel for it. But hopefully by next fall I'll have some real magic. I think you're right though...make a basic blend with the basic ingredients...test it...check the flavor and add anything else a little at a time. Let it rest...more testing..etc. I doubt I will use the liquid smoke. I may try some and compare it to fire smoked just to see the difference but I want to keep things simple and somewhat traditional. Now all I gotta do is watch it hang for a year and resist the natural temptation to do it now. All good things come to those who wait they say

[squeezyjohn]

Well - my first input if you're growing your own is that if you're talking about this years crop - then anything you make from it will be far better if you leave it to age for a year. Sorry if that puts a spanner in the works!

secondly, liquid smoke is a rare item over here, but we can get it. My experience with it is that it's fine in smaller amounts to give a subtle smokey flavour to a snus, but in larger amounts it quickly tastes artificial and more unpleasant.

Also, with homegrown, a lot of the taste of the leaf is to do with your soil composition and the conditions of the years growing season. That something you can only ever test out by getting in there and making some. So I wouldn't be too scared of going for it ... It's a very rewarding hobby.

My my advice would be - make a small 100g batch. Make the snus plain and keep it on the dry side. Then be very careful adding flavourings and oils in small amounts at the end ... Mixing thoroughly and tasting each time, just like cooking. That way you're least likely to end up with something unusable.

[mouthofthesouth]

My thoughts are this. Since I only have home grown Virginia leaves....I have some slow aging in the closet .....im thInkin cure more outdoors for brightness and sweetness...then fire cure a little and blend it together with mostly the closet cured and outdoor cured for a base. Any input? First time attempting anything lile this and I certainly don't want to waste good tobacco. Because I cannot grow anymore most likely til spring. So being accurate is very important since this is a finite crop to me.

[mouthofthesouth]

Squeezy...thanks for this thread! Im curing some homegrown Virginia tobacco as we speak to make some snus and dipping tobacco out of. I don't know if you have this over there but to get that smoky profile without fire curing the tobacco I'm going to add a few drops of Liquid Smoke. Its usually found near the barbeque sauce and ketchup in grocery stores out here. We use it for chicken and it is tremendously smoky.

[resnor]

Cope black is back. Two bucks a can here.

It's over $6 a tin here in NH.

[squeezyjohn]

Here in the UK where it has no presence whatsoever I would be surprised if 1 person in 1000 had a clue what it was.

[Grim]

I bet if Copenhagen did a snus it would taste like a sweet version of Grov or a saltier version of Probe. Just a guess though. I like Copenhagen Snuff as dip and once thought about the awesomeness that could've been Copenhagen Snus, but I know it would somehow screw up making snus like most US snus that has come out.

I will say this though, if Snus continues to get a foot hold in the US that they will eventually introduce one. I would venture to guess that in the next 10 years snus will rise dramatically in the US as the ease of use and the fact it can be used anywhere will appeal to more people. I would say that the Copenhagen name would crossover into snus.

I still find it funny that maybe only 1 or 2 in 10 people even know what snus is and how it is used. And of course, everyone that sees me using it still calls it dip. Whatever, while they are having to step outside in the cold or rain to smoke, or spit their dip out to eat or drink, I am doing both while getting my buzz on.

[Thunder_Snus]

It is a little bit like cooking ... but you put different ingredients in at different times - so it's hard to really know the effect until the end of the process although you can taste it and have a guess as to how it's going.

So - the first layer is the most important ... that's the type of tobacco leaves you use ... you wouldn't believe how many different varieties, curing methods, and combinations of the two there are. The types are soooooo different! And if you get the blend of tobacco wrong at the start then it will never taste right at all.

Then you add casing ingredients to make snus - that's a sauce you add before cooking to wet the tobacco flour in to a paste - it can be as simple as salt and water - but you can add deep spices and sweetening agents too. If the flavour you are adding is volatile (as in it evaporates away during the cook) then it won't work here - but flavours added here are driven deep in to the tobacco and so add richness. Before cooking this mixture always tastes mealy and sour and it's hard to get any idea how it will end up by tasting.

The temperature and cooking time is a determinant in the eventual taste of the snus. Different tobacco blends respond differently to different temps and cook times too. Generally you use a lower temperature 45-50ºC for a long cook time of 5-6 days if you want a proper old skool snus which has some fermented properties in it's taste. It's likely to be a great flavour with more complexity but comes with the risk of higher TSNA levels. The cook can be shortened to a 24 hour period at the highest temperature before the flavour becomes burnt in nature which is 85ºC - snus made this way will be lower in TSNAs - so this is my first preference. I would imagine that 3 days at 70ºC would come somewhere in the middle.

The next step is where it becomes snus after the first cook with the addition of alkali - This begins the freebasing of the nicotine and also adds both ammonia type tastes and the familiar snus profile. Depending on the recipe you either leave it to mature or return to cook for a further amount of time.

Finally you add the aromatics which brighten the flavour and generally give the snus it's characteristic flavours. These normally take the form of essential oils which are food grade but can also be artificial flavours. Bergamot oil is the classic snus flavouring, but lemon, cinnamon, ginger, orange, peppermint, eucalyptus, wintergreen etc are all common in commercial brands. What you clasically think of as a bergamot snus will often also have other oils in there to enhance the taste ... I'm pretty sure rosewood is a common one - I've used it before and it helps with a more General brand taste.

You can add sweetness or saltiness at any time - that is more like standard cookery.

I know that the processes for home-made dip follow very similar processes but the recipe and cut of tobacco is different and generally it's done at 45ºC for 6 days to get the right taste.

I'm currently experimenting whether the best place to add whisky is at the casing or aromatic stage. I'm sure my first Copenhagen snus attempt will end up tasting like shit

Damn that sounds like a lot of work squeezy. I would be afraid to add anything. I think of you adding whiskey and thinking that would ruin it all but I know what you're doing is correct. I remember I got a terrible can of ettan white so I dumped some coffee in it and ruined it so it always brings me back to that memory when you say you are adding something.

My dad quit smoking a few weeks ago and has been questioning me about snus for awhile and finally put in an order last weekend. He said the general white tasted like rosewood which i find odd because I have never even heard of rosewood or what it tastes like. He also got some Oden's cold and thunder cool mint? Im not sure the exact name its in the light blue can which i've never tried before. He also got a few random single cans of assorted stuff.

Have you ever thought about experimenting to find a really good recipe and selling it either privately or selling the rights to one of the major companies? I think people would go wild for a bacon flavored or even a really good vanilla flavor.....I don't enjoy the Oden's much but I certainly admire them for trying. Either way making tobacco sounds pretty fun I'd love to get into it once all I have to worry about it work and not school as well.

[squeezyjohn]

It is a little bit like cooking ... but you put different ingredients in at different times - so it's hard to really know the effect until the end of the process although you can taste it and have a guess as to how it's going.

So - the first layer is the most important ... that's the type of tobacco leaves you use ... you wouldn't believe how many different varieties, curing methods, and combinations of the two there are. The types are soooooo different! And if you get the blend of tobacco wrong at the start then it will never taste right at all.

Then you add casing ingredients to make snus - that's a sauce you add before cooking to wet the tobacco flour in to a paste - it can be as simple as salt and water - but you can add deep spices and sweetening agents too. If the flavour you are adding is volatile (as in it evaporates away during the cook) then it won't work here - but flavours added here are driven deep in to the tobacco and so add richness. Before cooking this mixture always tastes mealy and sour and it's hard to get any idea how it will end up by tasting.

The temperature and cooking time is a determinant in the eventual taste of the snus. Different tobacco blends respond differently to different temps and cook times too. Generally you use a lower temperature 45-50ºC for a long cook time of 5-6 days if you want a proper old skool snus which has some fermented properties in it's taste. It's likely to be a great flavour with more complexity but comes with the risk of higher TSNA levels. The cook can be shortened to a 24 hour period at the highest temperature before the flavour becomes burnt in nature which is 85ºC - snus made this way will be lower in TSNAs - so this is my first preference. I would imagine that 3 days at 70ºC would come somewhere in the middle.

The next step is where it becomes snus after the first cook with the addition of alkali - This begins the freebasing of the nicotine and also adds both ammonia type tastes and the familiar snus profile. Depending on the recipe you either leave it to mature or return to cook for a further amount of time.

Finally you add the aromatics which brighten the flavour and generally give the snus it's characteristic flavours. These normally take the form of essential oils which are food grade but can also be artificial flavours. Bergamot oil is the classic snus flavouring, but lemon, cinnamon, ginger, orange, peppermint, eucalyptus, wintergreen etc are all common in commercial brands. What you clasically think of as a bergamot snus will often also have other oils in there to enhance the taste ... I'm pretty sure rosewood is a common one - I've used it before and it helps with a more General brand taste.

You can add sweetness or saltiness at any time - that is more like standard cookery.

I know that the processes for home-made dip follow very similar processes but the recipe and cut of tobacco is different and generally it's done at 45ºC for 6 days to get the right taste.

I'm currently experimenting whether the best place to add whisky is at the casing or aromatic stage. I'm sure my first Copenhagen snus attempt will end up tasting like shit

[Thunder_Snus]

Ahhh ok. Yes copenhagen can be very hard to ask for since they have no flavors...except wintergreen recently. I remember sending new gas station attendants back to the rack 4 or 5 times until they got the correct can. Then they have just "cope" which i haven't quite figured out their system on that yet either I just remember getting a plastic can meant it was wrong and probably had "a splash" of wintergreen in it making it unusable to me.

I'm not familiar with the tobacco making process. Is it similar to cooking food? You can stick your finger in to see how it tastes so far? Or do you have to make a whole batch and wait just to find out if it tastes good/like shit?

[pouchface]

It sounds as if they change it around a lot! For a while some of it was labeled as Cope on the can which was plastic - but Copenhagen came in the cardboard can.

The original longcut (at the moment) has a gold lid and a dark red can ... I know the wintergreen one has a gold lid and a green can. This one tastes closest to the finecut snuff they do.

It's not the straight flavoured one ... that one is sweetened much more and spicier.

"Cope" was, to the best of my knowledge, a spinoff brand. Kind of the Grizzly to Copenhagen's Kodiak. It's hard to find these days, at least in my area. Copenhagen is so popular that there's really no point.

Squeezy, please be sure to get the slight hickory flavor in the snus.... That's what I always loved about the snus and the OLC, it reminded me of bacon.

[squeezyjohn]

It sounds as if they change it around a lot! For a while some of it was labeled as Cope on the can which was plastic - but Copenhagen came in the cardboard can.

The original longcut (at the moment) has a gold lid and a dark red can ... I know the wintergreen one has a gold lid and a green can. This one tastes closest to the finecut snuff they do.

It's not the straight flavoured one ... that one is sweetened much more and spicier.

[Thunder_Snus]

I'm trying to copy Copenhagen Original Long-Cut or snuff both of which have similar tastes. I don't think there is any wintergreen in there - but there may be a tiny tiny amount. The flavour profile I get from it is mainly rose geranium (which is sometimes called geranium bourbon - just to throw another spanner in the works - nothing to do with whisky!) - plus the ammonia and smoky tobacco. I'm sure the flavour is a mix of many many carefully blended ingredients which will probably be impossible to truly replicate.

I did try the smooth hickory when it was out there ... it was really nice - but got a bit tiresome after a few uses - there was something unpleasantly artificial about it's taste after a while.

By the way - you can't get any of this stuff over here - you have to import it.

Sorry squeezy I've been out of the dip game too long....is original long-cut the all gold lid, gold lid with red circle in the middle or all red lid. Atleast here in the states the all red lid was Copenhagen longcut and had wintergreen while original longcut ( i always called it longcut straight) was the one that tastes similar to snuff.