Average Salary in Norway

[justintempler]

Yet the programs were so lacking that there was national outcry for the creation of things like social security.

Are we really best served by a system that is based on hoping rich people or churches give money away? What happens if for example you were gay or black in the 1930's. Guess who the church is sending to the back of the list?

I'll forgive you because you actually believe the crap that's been fed you. You should actually spend some time to learn about the history of SS, who it was meant to cover, and what the life expectancy of it's recipients of it's intended recipients were at the time.

[Frosted]

I'd say a hell of a lot of your tax revenue in the US goes on the military, intelligence services and such.

[shikitohno]

Sorry if I misinterpreted some of your past comments, sgreger, but there've been a few threads here and there where you seemed to me more conservative than you apparently are. Again, my bad. And I was only singling you out because you're one the most prolific posters who came to mind. Oh well, it's been a while since we've had some of our more heated political threads, perhaps my memory's going off.

@justintempler: Perhaps oil revenue plays some role in funding it, but a good chunk of it is simply the very high taxes they have on everything there. Norway has extremely high taxes, at least relative to the US, and they enjoy a number of benefits as a result. I'd guess politicians there don't get to piss away money into pet projects all the time, which also probably helps. VAT there ranges from 8%-25% of the total value of products and services. There are also pretty high excise duties on things like alcohol and tobacco. Then they've got incomes taxes on top of it all. Their tax money just seems to be put to better use than ours in many cases, which sometimes just seems to vanish for no reason.

[sgreger1]

If it is valid argument that the middle class pays a substantial amount in taxes towards the national budget then what happens as the the middle class dissapears and the budget continues to grow?

This is why increasing revenue via increasing taxes on the rich isn't going to be the magic bullet. We need a combination of revenue increases and budget cuts. We can't just tax ourselves into infinity, and we can't keep spending ourselves into infinity either. We need to cut some (like, oh I don't know defense, medicare etc) and institute new taxes on financial transactions, capital gains etc.

[sgreger1]

Right but I'm talking average price of a standard pale ale or ipa at a bar, or say a pint of Heineken to even the playing field. You didn't have to pay $7 for 1 beer, but trust me, I do it too sometimes for the good shit.

Muddy, come to think of it it was when the rate was 2 to 1, and I suppose the place was somewhat swanky, and it was in central London. That was before I used snus and I remember the cost of cigarettes being damn-near the "priced-out" threshold we're discussing in another thread.

And sgreger, if your whiskey (at any price) can't be distinguished from Jose Cuervo you're doing it wrong lol.

I guess that really depends on where you go. Most bars/clubs around here would charge about ~$5 for a standard (non-exotic) beer like an IPA or Hieneken or something. In the south though I remember going places and having quarter beer night, now those were good times.

[sgreger1]

the philanthropists churches and the charities provided the social programs.

Yet the programs were so lacking that there was national outcry for the creation of things like social security.

Are we really best served by a system that is based on hoping rich people or churches give money away? What happens if for example you were gay or black in the 1930's. Guess who the church is sending to the back of the list?

[truthwolf1]

I just this weekend signed a petition for a ballot initiative here in CA to increase taxes on those making over a million$ to help support social programs. Today, I also did my tax refunds. I make about $80k with my wife and I combined, but we pay over $25,000 in taxes each year. And guess what, we owe another $1,500 this year which is due by April. For reference $80,000 in CA is shit, we rent our place because we can't afford anything else. Meanwhile, Mitt Romney pays 15% and has assets hidden in swiss bank accounts.

So no, I do not support tax increases on the middle class. Why you ask? Because I live in CA where they constantly raise taxes and we don't get SHIT in return. I am already paying nearly double what someone with $500 million in assets pays and don't see shit in return other than roads with little upkeep. I receive no pension, no healthcare bonuses, nothing from the state etc. So sorry if I don't support middle class tax increases, our representatives like to squander the money on wars and other bullshit that does not benefit us. This is not Norway where they have responsible government, this is Amerika, where every dollar you pay goes to murdering some civilian in the middle east.

If it is valid argument that the middle class pays a substantial amount in taxes towards the national budget then what happens as the the middle class dissapears and the budget continues to grow?

[truthwolf1]

Notice how the UK doesn't even register. Wonder why that is? Might be something to do with trying to pack 65 million people into a tiny island - all because the EU says we have to. France on the other hand has a similar population but with a huge land mass.

Notice the countries that can make their own immigration policies are at the top of the list.

F*** the EU.

Sorry Frosted. I have a few third cousins over there from Eastern Europe. The only reason is for work, because austerity measures have left many without anything to do on the east side. There are huge blocks that left to Ireland also. My house has a couple immigrants in it also! lol. The EU is a bunch of crap but I do put some blame on my EE people for somewhat of creating a bubble on themselves also. TOO MUCH TOO FAST MATERIALISM

To be honest I dont think the better off countries in Europe have seen the peak of what is to come or a big or??? The EU will start to disband with rising pressure from native's.

[Frosted]

Notice how the UK doesn't even register. Wonder why that is? Might be something to do with trying to pack 65 million people into a tiny island - all because the EU says we have to. France on the other hand has a similar population but with a huge land mass.

Notice the countries that can make their own immigration policies are at the top of the list.

F*** the EU.

[truthwolf1]

I was really surprised that you can still get $3 rail drinks and domestic beers in most bars. The smoking ban closed a ton of bars and with the downturn in the economy prices just seemed to adjust to keep people actually going.

So with a 20 dollar bill I could get 5 drinks with tip! Eyeball all the local single ladies and then head home with a gallon of milk for my family.

[precious007]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-live-in.html

Top 20 countries on the Human Development Index:
1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Iceland
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. France
9. Switzerland
10. Japan
11. Luxembourg
12. Finland
13. United States
14. Austria
15. Spain
16. Denmark
17. Belgium
18. Italy
19. Liechtenstein
20. New Zealand

Nice List

Australia also has a high-living standard yep

[Frosted]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-live-in.html

Top 20 countries on the Human Development Index:
1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Iceland
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. France
9. Switzerland
10. Japan
11. Luxembourg
12. Finland
13. United States
14. Austria
15. Spain
16. Denmark
17. Belgium
18. Italy
19. Liechtenstein
20. New Zealand

[Roo]

I just bought a pint from Safeway (grocery store). It's about $7-$10 per bottle (1 pint in volume). Some of the clubs here have even more expensive shit. I was drinking $45 per shot whiskey the other night that frankly couldn't be distinguished from jose cuervo.

Right but I'm talking average price of a standard pale ale or ipa at a bar, or say a pint of Heineken to even the playing field. You didn't have to pay $7 for 1 beer, but trust me, I do it too sometimes for the good shit.

Muddy, come to think of it it was when the rate was 2 to 1, and I suppose the place was somewhat swanky, and it was in central London. That was before I used snus and I remember the cost of cigarettes being damn-near the "priced-out" threshold we're discussing in another thread.

And sgreger, if your whiskey (at any price) can't be distinguished from Jose Cuervo you're doing it wrong lol.

[precious007]

Exactly, small track homes start at $600,000 where I live. I pay $2,800 to rent the house i'm in now and it has no land, no backyard etc. Condos start at $500k for god's sake. CONDOS. And I don't live in San Francisco proper where a 4 bedroom house in a non-ghetto area can run you $1 million +.

$3000 is ****ing insane to pay for a rent.

[justintempler]

One could argue that in a truly capitalist state, the money would have been kept in the pockets of the rich and not redistributed in the form of social programs.

You can argue that if you like but if we look at history, we used to have a mostly capitalistic state before the 1930's and the philanthropists churches and the charities provided the social programs.