Blood Sugar and Snus

[giancarlo]

Has anyone had this type of experience?

I don't have diabetes and my blood sugar was normal when it was tested several months ago (before snus).

Since I quit cigarretes I have been going through withdrawal symptoms (even with Snus use) which from what I read seems normal.

The one thing that seems to be throwing me off a little is when I eat lunch. After eating I seem to get extremely tired. This is not something that happened when I smoked and I'm wondering if the cigarettes had some sort of effect on my insulin that Snus is not having.

I'm not asking for medical advice, I'm just wondering if this has happened to anyone else.

[wa3zrm]

Oh yea... I can write a book on this topic!

I've been a Type II diabetic since 1994. I use tight control; 4+ injections a day. And no, I have no interest in the pump... it's just not for me.

I started with Camel Frost... contacted the company... they informed me that the sweetness IS NOT FROM SUGAR or ANY GLUCOSE BASED PRODUCT. They would not tell me what the artificial sweetener was; however, from the strength, I would believe it is from the nutrasweet family of products.

In a word, does snus effect MY blood sugar- YES.

Stark portions kick it up faster and higher than regular portions. Los, depending on the size I bake, has the same effect.

I begin and end the day with a stark portion. I make sure I take enough insulin in the AM and PM to cover. Throughout the day, I use regular portions (8MG) which I add into my meal plan. I tend to treat the snus as a snack.

Mini white portions (ie. Northerern purified portions) don't have much effect on me. I can pop those all day without seeing any rises or drops.

To determine how snus is effecting my blood sugar, I pre-test in the AM before breakfast and then test two hours after breakfast. If I am under 170 after breakfast, I am happy. The ADA recommendation for your glucose level two hours after a meal is 180 or less. Keep in mind that 70 to 120 is the NORMAL range.

Since I am under tight control, my A1C's have been very good. My last A1C was 6.5. The ADA is happy if a diabetic's A1C is under 7.

My doc is very happy with my quarterly A1C, Lipid and CPR tests. I've informed him that snus helped me kick a pack a day smoking habit. He told me that the real danger from cigarettes comes from the smoke and the thousands of chemicals that make it up. Much to my surprise, he knew all about snus. He went on to tell me that people that he can't get to quit smokes with the patch usually can do so with snus. The nic content and delivery method of snus is greater and more direct than the patch in his opinion.

The one thing my doc does not like about snus is that the nic effects the cardiovascular system. High doses tend to constrict your blood vessels. Keep in mind, cigarettes do the same thing in addition to adding numerous toxins in the smoke.

I hope you have found this info of some value. Please keep in mind that I am not a doctor and you should discuss smoking and/or snus with a qualified medical practitioner before use.

[G_Jones]

So you are saying snus causes a measurable rise in blood sugar level?

[wa3zrm]

So you are saying snus causes a measurable rise in blood sugar level?

Yes- FOR ME! I'm a brittle diabetic. Almost anything I eat effects my glucose levels. That's why I'm on intensive insulin therapy.

There are certain foods that shoot my glucose levels through the roof... like milk.

Everyone is different. Keep in mind that I'm on insulin too.

Here's a kicker for you... one shot of alcohol or a single beer drops my sugar levels... any more than that increases them.

When it comes to blood glucose, everyone reacts differently based on their metabolism. That's why anyone that thinks they have blood sugar issues should see a doctor and test their glucose levels on a regular basis.

[Frosted]

I don't have diabetes but when my blood sugar goes low (4 mmol) I get mad, shaky and nauseous. After eating a bowl of pasta I get warm, relaxed and sleepy and feel a bit euphoric. This might be what you're experiencing and maybe on a lesser level.

If it's bothersome I'd snack more to keep the blood sugar up.
However - stay off sugar (sodas, chocolate etc) or at least limit it and eat more complex carbs. It's very easy to do.

[PipenSnus]

I'm a Type 2 diabetic also, diagnosed over 10 years ago. I don't take insulin, just oral meds. So far, I haven't noticed any change in my blood sugar that can be attributed to snus. I have noticed an appetite suppressant effect, however, which will lower my blood sugar eventually, if I lose enough weight.

My doctor is a raving anti-tobacco fanatic, so I'm not even going to tell her about snus. I'm just going to tell her I'm not smoking cigs (hopefully I'll be completely off them before my next appointment), and that I'm only having a couple of pipes of tobacco a day. She won't like that I'm still using tobacco in any form, but we've been having this battle for years. She's not going to get me tobacco-free, and I think deep down she knows that, but she keeps trying.

Oh, and BTW, the ADA recommendation for HbA1C level is 7.5 or lower. The American College of Endocrinology recommends 6.5. But those numbers may be lower for brittle diabetics. And several recent research studies show that while tight control (under 7) lowers risk of complications, anything below 7.5 increases mortality risk.

[CoderGuy]

I'm a Type 2 diabetic also, diagnosed over 10 years ago. I don't take insulin, just oral meds. So far, I haven't noticed any change in my blood sugar that can be attributed to snus. I have noticed an appetite suppressant effect, however, which will lower my blood sugar eventually, if I lose enough weight.

My doctor is a raving anti-tobacco fanatic, so I'm not even going to tell her about snus. I'm just going to tell her I'm not smoking cigs (hopefully I'll be completely off them before my next appointment), and that I'm only having a couple of pipes of tobacco a day. She won't like that I'm still using tobacco in any form, but we've been having this battle for years. She's not going to get me tobacco-free, and I think deep down she knows that, but she keeps trying.

Oh, and BTW, the ADA recommendation for HbA1C level is 7.5 or lower. The American College of Endocrinology recommends 6.5. But those numbers may be lower for brittle diabetics. And several recent research studies show that while tight control (under 7) lowers risk of complications, anything below 7.5 increases mortality risk.

I was diagnosed 6 years ago and also haven't noticed any change. I too have noticed the more I snus the less hungry I am so I eat less. My doc is also very anti-tobacco and keeps asking me, "So you still not smoking?" to which I happily reply, "Haven't had a cigarrett since April of last year". My BP is 128/78, A1C is 6.7, so I see no point in discussing Harm Reduction with him, no sense tainting the waters with logic.

CG

[f. bandersnatch]

no sense tainting the waters with logic.

CG

Truer words have never been spoken.

[tom502]

My test results came back, and my DR mailed me a letter saying I was diabetic. Sucks.

[PipenSnus]

My test results came back, and my DR mailed me a letter saying I was diabetic. Sucks.

Yeah, a diabetes diagnosis can be tough. But hang in there. You're going to have to learn some new life skills, and there will be an adjustment period, but eventually, it just becomes a natural part of your life. As long as you take care of yourself properly, diabetes doesn't have to be a hassle.

If your health insurance will cover it, get your doctor to schedule an appointment for you with the Norton Diabetes Education Center. They'll teach you how to test your blood sugar (and probably give you a free meter), and counsel you on diet and things like that.

[lxskllr]

That's too bad Tom. It's not the end of the world, but it'll make life a bigger PITA. Take care of yourself. Diabetes isn't something to screw with. If you don't take care of it, you can go on with a fair degree of comfort, but paybacks a bitch. You pay the lack of attention with lost eyesight, organ damage, and lost limbs. Here's my post from another thread regarding glucose meters...

Interesting stuff Spirit. The difference you're seeing between snuff and snus may just be the quantity. 1-2g of snuff is only 1-2 portions/prises. If you really felt like screwing with it, you could then drop the snuff, and use just a little bit of snus. There would be a difference though, as you'd be getting a larger amount of nicotine at once. If you're interested, WalMart sells a blood glucose tester for $20. The whole unit's disposable, and it comes with 20 test strips if I remember right. It looks like a film canister, and they sell it on the open rack here, as opposed to behind the counter. You could also get their Relion brand, which would give you a nicer tester, but you'd have to buy test strips at $20 per 50. I get the Relion stuff for my daughter, cause the name brands strips are way too expensive. It pisses me off actually. If WalMart can sell strips for $20, and Walgreens can sell them for $35, why the hell do the big brands cost $70? It's exploitation pure and simple. They give the doctors the test units to give out to patients(the cheap part of the equipment), and that gets the patients buying their overpriced strips. **** it insurance pays for it right? it's all FREE!! Yea, well insurance doesn't always cover it, and it shouldn't. Aside from the fact that insurance is a scam, they shouldn't pay for the usury rates of drug companies.

Well, sorry bout that :^P The real point of all that is you can get an accurate blood tester fairly cheaply. It might be worth you looking into. If you're pre diabetic, you might be able to handle it yourself without getting doctors involved. Earlier's better than later for getting it under control :^)

Edit:
Here's the cheapy set from WalMart. It's accurate, and doesn't require a large initial investment. It's feature poor, but gives you the info you need to know...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/All-in-One...ystem/10818578
It has 50 strips, not 20 as stated above.

Edit2:
You'll also want to get a finger pricker, about $10 I think.

[tom502]

Thanks.
He wants to call in a prescription for me, I think tomorrow, and I have a follow up appt on the 19th.
It's just a lifetime if eating high-carb junk, and too much of it, and some genetic predispostion.

It didn't suprise me, as I figured as much.

I do believe if children, from birth to physical maturity never ate sugar and flour, especially, they would never get it.

I've just been a carb-head, like a crack head, and it's gonna be a big challenge.

[lxskllr]

If you have any questions, feel free to ask Tom. I'm no genius, but my daughter has diabetes, so I've picked up a few things. We also have some diabetic members on the board that can give you some tips.

[amdusias]

I too, have type 2 diabetes. Food has always made me tired after eating. I take Metformin after my largest meal of the day. Though snus doesnt seem to effect by blood sugar but my readings, with meds, are around 100 to 120 and my A1C was under 6. I dont really know that much more about it but my Doc. seems to think I am over it from my weight loss. So I will probably be coming off the meds soon.

[tom502]

Thanks for the comments.

I do plan on making real dietary changes. I know I'd said that before for many years, but now since it's official, it should give me more impetus.

I'll see what he prescribes me, and what he says on my next appt.
I do believe diabetes is largely a condition one gives oneself, and one can cure themself of it, that is, if they really quit or control what's keeping them in this condition.

[Premium Parrots]

please let us know how it goes. The last tim I saw my regular doctor about 2 months ago he told me that if I don't cut out the sweets that by this time next year I will be on meds for diabetes. nice. all I need is more meds. I do eat right because of my heart issues and I really don't eat much in the way of sweets so I was concerned as to why my blood levels are off. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. I sure hope I don't have to quit snus. If I do then I might as well just slit my wrists. BTW, my doctor has no idea that I use snus. He does know that I don't smoke anymore but I don't want to tell him that I use any tobacco products. If it gets back to m health insurance provider my rates will go up 40%. They are too dam high as it is.

just what I need now.......diabetes. **** me

[PipenSnus]

I take metformin and glyburide, the two most commonly prescribed oral medications for diabetes.

I think you're right, Tom, that the hardest part for you will most likely be changing the types and amounts of carbs you eat. It's nearly impossible to stick with a very-low-carb diet. Instead, what you can do is to pick your carbs more carefully. Eat whole-grain and high-fiber bread and pasta whenever possible, and watch your portion sizes. If you have a sweet tooth, try fresh fruit instead of cake or pie. If you like the salty, starchy carbs like potato chips, pop a bag of low-fat microwave popcorn instead.

Changing your eating habits is hard at first, but it gets easier the longer you do it. You can still allow yourself the occasional treat, but it takes some self-discipline to make sure those treats remain only occasional.

[danielan]

I didn't have a good experience with "Diabetes Educators".

They had a bunch of advice that I followed for about 6 months. i.e., drink all of the diet soda you want, you can pretty much eat whatever you want in moderation (except fruit juice or regular soda), oatmeal is a great breakfast, this is a life long problem - get used to it, etc. Sounds good, totally didn't work for me.

What worked for me, and this is not medical advice, was to stop the carbs as close to completely as possible - this actually helps you not to crave them after a week or so, walk at least a mile (3 is better) every day.

It's not that hard really - you get the steak and salad but skip the potato, you get the eggs and bacon, but skip the toast.

Also, try to eat most of your meals earlier in the day, but save some leftover good protein for a snack in the evening.

You'll start losing weight. Pretty quickly after a week or two. Once you've lost about 50 lbs (6 months give or take) go see your doctor again and see if your A1C is low enough that they'll support you not being on meds any more.

If you just gotta have carbs, google "glycemic index" - it's a pretty good way to choose less bad carbs (in terms of BS spikes). Nice tradeoffs like eat peanut m&m's instead of regular, etc.

You can add a few carbs back at this point, but make sure you offset them with exercise and try to eat them earlier in the day.

After about a year or so you'll be, IMO, "fine". They won't ever tell you that you are "cured", because theoretically if you went back to your old bad habits you would be in trouble again, but if you are not on meds and your numbers look right - what else do you want?

The complicated diet plans they made for me didn't work, were a pain to manage, and left me craving carbs.

Also, get a good meter - you will use it a lot for about 6 months to a year. I really liked the Accuchek-Compact. Make sure your insurance will pay for it though. If you get one - also get the IR blaster that goes with it, so you can track your numbers closely as you learn what works for you.

Also, also If you snore - get checked for apnea (do an overnight pulse-oxymeter test and NOT the $3000 sleep study) getting that fixed had a huge impact for me too - not only in terms of BS, but also in terms of energy to go walking.

[PipenSnus]

I didn't have a good experience with "Diabetes Educators".

They had a bunch of advice that I followed for about 6 months. i.e., drink all of the diet soda you want, you can pretty much eat whatever you want in moderation (except fruit juice or regular soda), oatmeal is a great breakfast, this is a life long problem - get used to it, etc. Sounds good, totally didn't work for me.

The plan you made up for yourself seems pretty sound, danielan. The 1-3 mile walks for exercise seems to be the most important element.

Some people can do the "cut out all carbs" routine, but Tom indicated he's a real carb junkie. So was I before I was diagnosed. It's not likely that a carb junkie will complete an Atkins-style carb elimination program successfully. I tried to indicate to Tom that he should switch to low glycemic index carbs without laying a bunch of jargon and numbers on his head. That's a more sensible approach, but everyone has to use what works for them, and I'm glad your system works for you.

Sounds like the "diabetes educators" in your area weren't very well trained. Good diabetes educators will most likely be RN's or LPN's, and will have special certification in diabetes education.

And no, you're not cured just because your numbers are stabilized in the normal range. If your pancreas is producing too little insulin, or defective insulin (that's the basic criteria for Type 2 diabetes), it most likely will continue to do so.

[danielan]

The 1-3 mile walks for exercise seems to be the most important element.

IMO, it's just an element.

It gives me room to bend the rules a bit and helps with the weight.

Some people can do the "cut out all carbs" routine, but Tom indicated he's a real carb junkie. So was I before I was diagnosed. It's not likely that a carb junkie will complete an Atkins-style carb elimination program successfully.

I really was too before. But it turned out to be elastic for me. If I have a nice wedge salad and a 20 oz ribeye - I just don't care about the lack of bread any more. That's another thing that helped me - increasing the quality of everything. If you can afford it - go for the best of everything. It's easier to live on meat and veggies when they are the best meat and veggies. Even when you "cheat" and get some carbs, skip the regular macaroni salad and "settle" for a smaller portion of the best pasta salad you can find, skip the slices of sandwich bread and have a bit of the best bread you can find, skip the daily jelly-donuts and have the weekly eclair, etc.

But one thing about diet soda, sugar-free candy, low-carb pasta, low-carb breads/tortillas, etc. All of that makes me crave the real thing. So, for me, it was easier to replace them completely then to substitute in a lot of cases.

I tried to indicate to Tom that he should switch to low glycemic index carbs without laying a bunch of jargon and numbers on his head. That's a more sensible approach, but everyone has to use what works for them, and I'm glad your system works for you.

I'm not attacking your advice - just adding mine.

You can get really into the glycemic index stuff, but at it's most basic (and IMO, most useful) it is a good tool to compare two alternatives easily.

Sounds like the "diabetes educators" in your area weren't very well trained. Good diabetes educators will most likely be RN's or LPN's, and will have special certification in diabetes education.

They were all trained/certified nurses (part of the hospital). My insurance is really anal about that sort of thing (usually to my financial detriment - I actually miss the simplicity of military medicine). IMO, their problems were; 1. They seemed more aligned to talk to 60 year olds then younger people, 2. They were required to toe the AMA/ADA line with regard to the advice they give (i.e., they were teaching the USDA food pyramid - and telling diabetics to take 6-11 servings of carbs is goofy IMO), and 3. They were trying to "teach" too many people at once which resulted in everyone getting "cookie-cutter" advice.

And no, you're not cured just because your numbers are stabilized in the normal range. If your pancreas is producing too little insulin, or defective insulin (that's the basic criteria for Type 2 diabetes), it most likely will continue to do so.

Not that everyone is the same, but I've always had, and still have slightly above average insulin levels. My Dr. said that this was normal for type II and she called it, "Insulin resistance" and then explained the whole "metabolic syndrome" thing.

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/overview/